Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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75 Advisors and Tactical Int blokes to go to Ukraine.

British military personnel are to be deployed to Ukraine over the next few weeks to provide advice and training to government troops, David Cameron has said.
The announcement came as the prime minister stated that Britain would be “the strongest pole in the tent” over the crisis, arguing for tougher sanctions against Moscow if Russian-backed militias in eastern Ukraine fail to observe the provisions of the ceasefire agreed earlier this month with the Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko.

Giving evidence to the commons liaison committee, Cameron said: “We are not at the stage of supplying lethal equipment. We have announced a whole series of non-lethal equipment, night-vision goggles, body armour, which we have already said that we will give to Ukraine.

“Over the course of the next month we are going to be deploying British service personnel to provide advice and a range of training, from tactical intelligence to logistics to medical care, which is something else they have asked for.

“We will also be developing an infantry training programme with Ukraine to improve the durability of their forces. This will involve a number of British service personnel; they will be away from the area of conflict but I think this is the sort of thing we should be helping with.”

Cameron said he did not rule out going further in supporting Ukrainian forces but stressed that he did not believe there was a military solution to the crisis.

He said that if aggression by Russian-backed separatists continued, he wanted to see a wave of sanctions that would be “materially different” from the measures imposed so far.

Asked about supplying lethal equipment to Ukrainian troops, he said: “I don’t say that we should rule out forever going further – I know America is thinking carefully about this – but I think we’ve had National Security Council discussions, we’ve had very clear decisions that we should be in the space of providing non-lethal support, the help, the advice. And I think you have heard from the Ukrainians, I would say, the same thing: they see us as a very strong friend to them and I think that’s where we should be.”

He added: “The reason for not going further is we don’t believe, fundamentally, there is some military solution to this issue. There needs to be a diplomatic solution which I think should be enabled by sanctions and pressure and the economic weight of Europe and America. But obviously where we can help a friend in non-lethal equipment, we should.”

Cameron told the committee that there would be “deeply damaging” consequences for Europe if the EU failed to stand up to Vladimir Putin over Ukraine, predicting that the Russian president could turn against the Baltic states or Moldova if he was not reined in now.

He said it would be “miraculous” if the terms of the 12 February ceasefire agreement – brokered in Minsk by the French president, François Hollande, and German chancellor, Angela Merkel – were met in full.

Fighting continued around the strategic railway hub of Debaltseve following the deal, and Cameron said he feared the port of Mariupol would be the next target of separatist fighters.

Cameron said there was no doubt about Russian support for the rebels.

“What we are seeing is Russian-backed aggression, often these are Russian troops, they are Russian tanks, they are Russian Grad missiles. As I said the other day, you can’t buy these things on eBay, they are coming from Russia, people shouldn’t be in any doubt about that.

“We have got the intelligence, we have got the pictures and the world knows that. Sometimes people don’t want to see that but that is the fact.

“I think what we should be putting into place is a sense that if there is another Debaltseve then that will trigger a round of sanctions that will be materially different to what we have seen so far.”

Cameron said the EU should go ahead with the extension of sanctions which were put on hold earlier this year and that there would be an overwhelming argument for tougher measures against Moscow if it did not stop destabilising Ukraine.

He acknowledged that it would be difficult to achieve unanimity among the 28 EU states on the continuation of sanctions when they came up for renewal in July. But he said that “the horrors of Debaltseve” should show Europe “who we are dealing with and how firm we need to be”.

“I think the extension should happen in any event – even if not very much changes on the ground,” the prime minister said. “They should be deepened if further steps of destabilisation are taken.

“I think, particularly, people will be looking at Mariupol as the next potential flashpoint, and if that were to happen, I think the argument for further action would be overwhelming. I think that would be the view of countries like Poland, the Baltic states and many others.”

Cameron added: “Of course when you put sanctions on a country there is short-term pain to your own economies, but the argument I always make is that in the medium to long term the countries of Europe depend on a rules-based system where people obey the rules, and the instability we will yield if we don’t stand up to Russia in the long term will be deeply damaging to all of us, because you will see further destabilisation - next it will be Moldova or one of the Baltic states - and that sort of instability and uncertainty will be dreadful for our economies, dreadful for our stability. That’s why Britain takes such a clear view.”

Looking ahead to arguments within the EU over the tightening of sanctions, Cameron told the cross-party committee of senior MPs: “I think we need to use all our diplomatic and other skills and efforts to convince those that have been more sceptical about sanctions that it’s only a firm stand that will be taken notice of in the Kremlin.

“So that’s what we should do. We’ve got some time to do it. Britain has quite an important role to play in all of that. We have been the strong pole in the tent in terms of sanctions. We should continue to play that role.”

Asked whether he was optimistic of persuading fellow EU leaders, Cameron said: “I’m always optimistic. Some of it will depend on what happens on the ground. I think that if, miraculously, heavy weapons are withdrawn, ceasefires are held, elections start, and all the elements of Minsk are put in place, I think you’d see people wanting to lighten the sanctions load. But if we don’t see that, you will get a different view.

“Britain’s role is to be at the tougher end of the spectrum, to try to keep the European Union and the United States together, and I think we should be clear about this pattern of behaviour we’ve seen from Putin now over many years.”

Cameron said the government could be ready to give the BBC more funding to counter Russian-backed propaganda.

“I think we need to do more, frankly, in the area of information. One of the complaints we get from the Baltic states is there is nothing to counter the deluge of Russian-paid and backed media spreading disinformation,” he said.

“We have got to recognise one of the strengths we have got as a country – although we don’t always necessarily see it this way – is that we have a very strong and impartial media, we have a wonderful brand in the BBC, known for its impartial views. We should be supporting the BBC to provide news services and news channels where people otherwise are getting a diet of Russian disinformation.”
 
“I think we need to do more, frankly, in the area of information. One of the complaints we get from the Baltic states is there is nothing to counter the deluge of Russian-paid and backed media spreading disinformation,” he said.

“We have got to recognise one of the strengths we have got as a country – although we don’t always necessarily see it this way – is that we have a very strong and impartial media, we have a wonderful brand in the BBC, known for its impartial views. We should be supporting the BBC to provide news services and news channels where people otherwise are getting a diet of Russian disinformation.”

i like the irony of using our amazingly "unbiased" media to push propaganda for a specific side.
 
Russia is such a pathetic country that it will do whatever possible to annoy and scare West. Also it is a one massive fail with broken economy and brainwashed nation still worshipping animals like Lenin and Stalin. It must be eliminated before it is too late, Hitler wasn't and millions of innocent people paid with their lives. There is nothing like talking nice to Putin, every agreement you make with him he wipes his bottom with. Merkel and Hollande are a disgrace and shouldn't be involved in any more "diplomacy" towards that Russian Evil Empire.

edit @ Curio, simpleton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVZjyyAE-78 watch and learn...

We need to gather all Russians and put them in gas chambers :mad::mad::mad:

They are a bad race and a threat to the world.
 
I cant believe they're retiring the superb A10 for this turkey, which wont be able to do anything like the CAS role. But yes, as you say, military contracts.


That annoys me - "all" they need to do is basically the same again but updated with today's tech - nothing puts the fear of god into your enemies like a strafing run from an A10.
 
What level of Green on Blue are we expecting training Unranians?
Zero! And even if that ever happens than it would be almost certain that it would come from one of Putin's former KGB buddies, not Ukrainians themselves.

That's a real eye opener. It's absolutely disgusting what people had done to them by the Russians.
Stalin was even more crazy than Hitler, he would kill absolutely everybody in his way: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-483230/Traitors-family-Stalins-informers.html.

We need to gather all Russians and put them in gas chambers :mad::mad::mad: They are a bad race and a threat to the world.
Absolutely not! That would be the same kind of atrocity Hitler and Stalin did. We EU citizens just need to show Putin we are not afraid of his pathetic threats. He is just a madman who needs to be put in his place.
 
We need to gather all Russians and put them in gas chambers :mad::mad::mad:

They are a bad race and a threat to the world.

What a stupid post.

The majority of Russians are decent folk, just like the majority of British, Germans, Americans etc.

It's just they have a very dangerous leader, who scares the bejesus out of me.
 
David Cameron is a ****.
Sending troops to train the Ukraine forces for Gods sake!!

The British empire is dead, we are a small island with barely enough resources to look after our own affairs.

We are hardly in a position to call Russia after the 'Weapons of Mass destruction' farce
 
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Genuine mistake, I noticed that misspelled nickname later, no offense meant.

The majority of Russians are decent folk, just like the majority of British, Germans, Americans etc.
75% of russians would re-elect Putin as their president and 85% of them are happy with his current presidency. Hardly a decent majority...
 
Ukraine, yeah i still don't care. i do understand why it's a real red line for Russia. why did USA spend $5 billion to buy it? i dunno probably some big picture capatalism nonsense. if USA would have been anti protests a year ago, about 6000? more humans would be breathing right now.
 
i like the irony of using our amazingly "unbiased" media to push propaganda for a specific side.

Wonderful isn't it, its unbiased as long as it supports the "right" side. If it says something the government doesn't like then its "biased" and not fit for purpose.

75% of russians would re-elect Putin as their president and 85% of them are happy with his current presidency. Hardly a decent majority...

Yes yes, the russians habitually rape nuns and eat babies. We get it.
 
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What a stupid post.

The majority of Russians are decent folk, just like the majority of British, Germans, Americans etc.

It's just they have a very dangerous leader, who scares the bejesus out of me.

Given his posting history and attitudes to Russia and the west, I think Arek was being more than a bit sarcastic there :p
 
Yes yes, the russians habitually rape nuns and eat babies. We get it.
You get nothing it seems. Don't know about nuns and babies, but I know about beating the holy **** out of "different" people like gays for example, I know about promoting fascism and imprisoning and killing of journalist who are not in line with Kremlin. BTW, Ukrainian invasion was planned by Russia long time before Ukrainian people decided to get rig of that corrupt piece of **** president they had.
 
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