Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

[Fourstar]

Also how they're used.

The example of the Somme is a bit extreme as they were basically being used to blanket a huge area constantly, so far the Russians are the only ones who seem to be doing that in Ukraine (and even they are having to take breaks to conserve ammo), whilst the Ukrainians seem to be doing specific targeting for short periods of time and probably do more in military terms with a couple of dozen rounds than the Russians are with tens of tons.

Absolutely. I was purely commenting on the scale of warfare not the effectiveness.

The British bombardment was largely ineffective. For a start a significant number of shells were anti-personnel shrapnel which were useless against the German bunkers where all the soldiers were hiding.

 

[RoboCod]

Not really. The US is providing 90 155mm howitzers. The British had more than 3 times the quantity in that size and much larger.

For the Somme the British had
~1000 field artillery pieces 85mm & 115mm equivalent. (3.3" & 4.5")
In heavy artillery
~130 127mm equivalent. (5")
~300 152mm - 380mm equivalent. (6" - 15")

It was discussed earlier in this thread that more tnt has been dropped on Ukraine than was used during the whole of ww2... Or words to that effect.

 

[woppy101]

I hope Ukraine starts getting M109's and HIMARS, don't currently understand why they either haven't asked or the US hasn't obliged.

Maybe it's because they're needed to replace equipment other partners have transferred?

HIMARS is the single rocket pod version of the M270 MLRS and is quite complex to operate and maintain, the basic MRLS course is 4weeks long and then the advanced is another 4 weeks and then the commanders course is another 5 weeks on top of that. So Your talking 1 man needing 13 weeks of training, 1 needing 8 weeks and 1 needing 4 weeks just to operate it basically without any experience, they would be more likely to hit friendly targets than the enemy. Also the MLRS fire control system is all in English, so every operator would have to be very Competent in English language

 

[StriderX]

HIMARS is the single rocket pod version of the M270 MLRS and is quite complex to operate and maintain, the basic MRLS course is 4weeks long and then the advanced is another 4 weeks and then the commanders course is another 5 weeks on top of that. So Your talking 1 man needing 13 weeks of training, 1 needing 8 weeks and 1 needing 4 weeks just to operate it basically without any experience, they would be more likely to hit friendly targets than the enemy.

I know there's a risk of logistical and strategic sophistication going beyond Ukraine's ability to sustain so many different systems, however as they move away from the dwindling supply of Soviet-era systems it surely becomes critical that they're trained to use equivalent NATO-standard systems? Is there any harm in training them now?

 

[Fourstar]

That's interesting. How large are these numbers typically for artillery? Showing my ignorance here, but I'd rather assumed that parts like that wouldn't need replacing during a single deployment.

Google says ~7500 rounds. Times that by 90 and you get 675,000 rounds or roughly 3 times the pledged quantity of ammo. Of course if the poo hits the fan and a particular howitzer is called upon to provide fire support at an elevated frequency it will run hotter and wear out much faster.

On an aside some time ago I saw a vid talking about the barrel life on the 16" guns of an Iowa class battle ship.

16in Barrels: Construction and Maintenance

In this episode we're answer a few viewer questions about the 16in gun barrels:How are they constructed?How do you change the liner on the barrel?To learn wa...

www.youtube.com

Originally they has a service life of 300 full charge shots before relining was necessary. Over time with the improvement of propellant chemistry and additives they could, by the 1980's, fire 1500 shots before relining which was pretty much more than the life of a battleship.

 

[woppy101]

I know there's a risk of logistical and strategic sophistication going beyond Ukraine's ability to sustain so many different systems, however as they move away from the dwindling supply of Soviet-era systems it surely becomes critical that they're trained to use equivalent NATO-standard systems? Is there any harm in training them now?

If they can spare a few battery’s worth of troops for over 14 weeks then yeah go ahead, but training on an MLRS is a lot more complex and complicated than training on a M777. As I said everyone that would be trained on it would have to be a very competent English speaker and reader as the Fire control system is in English and the MLRS is absolutely useless if you can’t use the FCS properly.

 

[Fourstar]

It was discussed earlier in this thread that more tnt has been dropped on Ukraine than was used during the whole of ww2... Or words to that effect.

Have you got any links to that? Ukraine seems extremely limited in the scale of warfare compared to previous conflicts.

 

[RoboCod]

Have you got any links to that? Ukraine seems extremely limited in the scale of warfare compared to previous conflicts.

I can't find it now so I'm now doubting my awful memory, or I've conflated some facts/data somewhere However, you have seen how destroyed the targeted cities in Ukraine are, right? I wouldn't say it's of a limited scale. I'm just making the point that just because there were a lot of bombs/shells/mines in ww2, much of it was ineffective and not really of high caliber/strength/size.

 

[Turn]

*German Economy Ministry: We Are Examining Russian Announcement of Sanctions Against Parts of of Gazprom Germania
*German Economy Ministry: We Still Have No Details
*German Economy Ministry: Government and Network Agency Are Already Making Necessary Preparations for Range of Scenarios
*German Economy Ministry: Supply of Gas Is Currently Guaranteed, Being Constantly Checked

*U.S. Ambassador to Russia Sullivan Met With Russian Officials on Wednesday to Discuss a Narrow Set of Bilateral Issues - State Dept

 

[Grim5]

It was discussed earlier in this thread that more tnt has been dropped on Ukraine than was used during the whole of ww2... Or words to that effect.

I struggle to believe that given the amount of destroyed cities portrayed in ww2 but who knows it's possible that ww2 was over exaggerated - for example the Nazis only killed 10,000 people in Mariupol over a 2 year period where as the Russians have already killed at least 20,000 over a 2 month period today

 

[Andrew_McP]

[Edit: just realised it might show someone small and distant getting taken out by the explosion. Probable explains why it's not been posted.]
It's the footage of a "normal" day's driving on a busy road in occupied Mariupol, when a tank gets taken out up ahead. Rather dramatic footage from unexpectedly close. Recorded (and, surprisingly, broadcast) by Chinese media.

 

[Rroff]

I can't find it now so I'm now doubting my awful memory, or I've conflated some facts/data somewhere However, you have seen how destroyed the targeted cities in Ukraine are, right? I wouldn't say it's of a limited scale. I'm just making the point that just because there were a lot of bombs/shells/mines in ww2, much of it was ineffective and not really of high caliber/strength/size.

I've not looked it up but I remember a video I watched touched on the amount of explosives used in WW2 and it was a mind boggling high amount.

 

[Sankari]

Russia's special military operation reaches astonishing new levels of incompetence.





(Source).

 

[Dis86]

I struggle to believe that given the amount of destroyed cities portrayed in ww2 but who knows it's possible that ww2 was over exaggerated - for example the Nazis only killed 10,000 people in Mariupol over a 2 year period where as the Russians have already killed at least 20,000 over a 2 month period today

What was the population then vs now?

 

[potatolord]

I struggle to believe that given the amount of destroyed cities portrayed in ww2 but who knows it's possible that ww2 was over exaggerated - for example the Nazis only killed 10,000 people in Mariupol over a 2 year period where as the Russians have already killed at least 20,000 over a 2 month period today

The germans killed upwards of 3 million people during the occupation, around one million of them jews. For comparison, the germans murdered around 30,000 jews in a weekend at baba yar.

The figures I have given are very conservative estimates.

 

[Firestar_3x]

Russia's special military operation reaches astonishing new levels of incompetence.





(Source).

Impressive!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524397146480549890

 

[lookitsjonno]

It's almost like the russians are deliberately being rubbish fighters. They really aren't up for this are they. Shocker

 

[dowie]

Russia's special military operation reaches astonishing new levels of incompetence.


(Source).

That's insane, like basically 30 armoured vehicles lost in a single location/single incident!

 

[Cyber-Mav]

How much ammo

that be for those that have 99 rounds left in the clip and hit the reload button. in real life they gonna wonder where the remaining 99 rounds went after reloading

 

[McBain]

NATO & azov nazis are the ones that murdering civilians and invading areas with russian population.

Hey Vladimir.