Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

maltrabob · 2 Mar 2015 at 19:53

areksnumbr1sxylady said:
What we did in Libya (recent) is miles worse than what is happening in Ukraine with Russia.
I suggest you have a read of UN reports on Libya, its a total poo show.
For some reason (backed by UN reports) Western oil companies are managing to export Oil from Libya without neither paying for taxes or fees for the wells.... I wonder how and why...

Link to some trustworthy source, please... What is happening in Libya and other Arab countries is related to the West how exactly? I thought it was the Arab Spring that started it all. Also mind you that majority of deaths are caused by tribal, clan etc. wars waged by own citizens of respective countries. With or without the West those countries were like a time bombs and the huge-scale violence was just a matter of time and opportunity.

//I see mine and Zethor's opinions are quite alike and you were faster with your response too ;-)

.

areksnumbr1sxylady said:
While Russia takes over foreign territories (Crimea) you can easily say that people are happy there with it. Can you say same for Libya,Iraq,Afghanistan,Syria.

I bet they are, with **** all in their shops, no transportation and electricity (Ukraine cut it, it's up to Russia to supply them). Every single territory either governed or occupied by Russia is poor and corrupt. If you think I am BSing you go and ask them.

arknor · 2 Mar 2015 at 20:01

maltrabob said:
I bet they are, with **** all in their shops, no transportation and electricity (Ukraine cut it, it's up to Russia to supply them). Every single territory either governed or occupied by Russia is poor and corrupt. If you think I am BSing you go and ask them.

Russia never ceases to amaze me.

I love how their car drivers use the footpaths as shortcuts around traffic jams

there's an awesome video series on youtube titled "stop a douche bag"

the amount of russians that will happily pull a gun and threaten to shoot them too lol

areksnumbr1sxylady · 2 Mar 2015 at 20:54

Russia demanding pre-payment for gas provided to Ukraine => Terrorist Tactics

Ukraine Cutting off Electricity,water to Crimea => Problem?

Amp34 · 2 Mar 2015 at 21:24

scorza said:
Ukraine: we want to join EU
Russia: you can't, you're in our sphere of influence.

Who is forcing their own version of how people should live here?

The reason (or at least one of them) the protests started was because the president was about to sign an agreement with Russia over the EU.

You're also conveniently ignoring the pro Russian population in both Crimea and the unstable areas now. There is a significant proportion of pro Russians in there that would have been happy for the agreement. It's not quite as clear cut as you like to suggest. For example the city of Mariupol is supposedly fairly evenly split between wanting to stay with Kiev and joining Donetsk. Yes, the way things are being done is wrong (on both sides) and Russia aren't exactly the light of democracy but to absolve Kiev and the west from blame is farcical.

scorza said:
Who has suggested that? Not me for sure. People like mmj_uk & TheStigGT90 are merely useful idiots, Arek is in a slightly different category.

Just look at the top of the page for some suggestions... Otherwise people like you and many of the new anti Russian posters seem to like to insist people are pro russian if they question people in this thread... You may not realise it but as I've said to you in several threads you have a VERY Black and White view. Not that I'm suggesting I agree with Arek, however suggesting he is a shill and pro Russian obsessive as a way of trying to shut down his arguments is wrong, especially considering the number of seemingly "anti Russian" posters in this thread that seem to believe that Kiev can do no wrong and everything is a Russian setup...

Nutella33 · 2 Mar 2015 at 21:31

maltrabob said:
I bet they are, with **** all in their shops, no transportation and electricity (Ukraine cut it, it's up to Russia to supply them). Every single territory either governed or occupied by Russia is poor and corrupt. If you think I am BSing you go and ask them.

Yes its such a mecca there's a line of over 900 lorry's of produce on the ukrainian side thats been blocked by russia at the border whilst in svestepol there are fights over bananas.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_GSH5tU0AAvIbJ.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lYl76R59cI

Amp34 said:
Otherwise people like you and many of the new anti Russian posters seem to like to insist people are pro russian if they question people in this thread.

That would be true if there were any questions but the majority is just ranting with unsubstantiated facts who then ignore any reply or set off on whataboutism if someone asks for clarification or points to alternative views. Ubersonic and you are the only "pro russian" posters (as you call them) that actually seem to be able to hold a topic in prose.

The posters who can't are generally pegged as "pro russian" because they say things like "everywhere russia invades people like them" or post ad verbium of RT.com. Just as you are pegging people as "anti-russian" because they are not accepting putins position.

maltrabob · 2 Mar 2015 at 21:57

areksnumbr1sxylady said:
Russia demanding pre-payment for gas provided to Ukraine => Terrorist Tactics

Let's call it a Blackmail Tactics, because that's exactly what it is. Russia's been destabilizing Ukraine for years and finally invaded it. How exactly do you expect an already weak country to keep paying you when you deliberately keep ruining it?

areksnumbr1sxylady said:
Ukraine Cutting off Electricity,water to Crimea => Problem?

So I break my way into your home and you won't do anything. Instead, you cook a nice meal for me and make sure I am warm and cosy in your bed. Yeah rrrrrrrright....

jl10000 · 2 Mar 2015 at 22:06

Looks like the war is over for Porky for the time being, currency collapse and now hyper inflation. If Kiev has any bananas for sale, they'll need a wheelbarrow for a wallet.

Nutella33 · 3 Mar 2015 at 02:33

Bill passing will be getting them 18bn from IMF and 40bn from other investments inc China. We shall see, but as Russians are spending half their income on food and inflation went up 40% in the last year, things arnt going so well there either. Bit early to attempt to crow.

First part of 3 on vices investigation into Russian troops in Ukraine
https://news.vice.com/video/killed-...-army-in-ukraine-part-1?utm_source=vicenewsfb

areksnumbr1sxylady · 3 Mar 2015 at 04:19

maltrabob said:
Let's call it a Blackmail Tactics, because that's exactly what it is. Russia's been destabilizing Ukraine for years and finally invaded it. How exactly do you expect an already weak country to keep paying you when you deliberately keep ruining it?

So I break my way into your home and you won't do anything. Instead, you cook a nice meal for me and make sure I am warm and cosy in your bed. Yeah rrrrrrrright....

Is this a troll orrrr??

maltrabob · 3 Mar 2015 at 07:17

You calling me troll, lol. Pretty obvious you run out of ideas russophile.

scorza · 3 Mar 2015 at 07:29

Amp34 said:
The reason (or at least one of them) the protests started was because the president was about to sign an agreement with Russia over the EU.

And before that the president was about to sign a popular agreement with the EU then changed his mind, presumably thanks to pressure from Russia.

Amp34 said:
You're also conveniently ignoring the pro Russian population in both Crimea and the unstable areas now. There is a significant proportion of pro Russians in there that would have been happy for the agreement. It's not quite as clear cut as you like to suggest. For example the city of Mariupol is supposedly fairly evenly split between wanting to stay with Kiev and joining Donetsk. Yes, the way things are being done is wrong (on both sides) and Russia aren't exactly the light of democracy but to absolve Kiev and the west from blame is farcical.

I'm not ignoring anything - yes there's a lot of ethnic Russians living in eastern Ukraine (more now thanks to thousands of "volunteers") who werent' as enthusiastic about the EU as people in Lviv and Kiev, however prior to the commencement of hostilities there was little in the way of support for actually joining Russia.

Amp34 said:
Just look at the top of the page for some suggestions... Otherwise people like you and many of the new anti Russian posters seem to like to insist people are pro russian if they question people in this thread... You may not realise it but as I've said to you in several threads you have a VERY Black and White view. Not that I'm suggesting I agree with Arek, however suggesting he is a shill and pro Russian obsessive as a way of trying to shut down his arguments is wrong, especially considering the number of seemingly "anti Russian" posters in this thread that seem to believe that Kiev can do no wrong and everything is a Russian setup...

I think the key thing is that *I* never accused him of being a paid shill - I do accuse him of being a shill though, which actually makes him all the more scary. Go read the comments section of any story about Russia on a UK newspaper website and tell me Arek doesn't have a very similar posting style to the Nashi-bot spammers - endless appeals to hypocrisy and ad hominems to back up claims that everything is the fault of the West, the regime in Kiev is a fascist junta, and a strong Russia is good for the world.

ubersonic · 3 Mar 2015 at 08:48

scorza said:
And before that the president was about to sign a popular agreement with the EU then changed his mind, presumably thanks to pressure from Russia.

Or another explanation could be that maybe he got fed up with the EU stringing him along (he had attempted to sign a year earlier but the EU put everything on hold after the deals were done) and realised that Ukraine wouldn't be allowed EU membership anyway so sought a deal elsewhere?

A comparison (not direct! Its just the first thing that comes to mind) is Stalin approaching Britain/France for an alliance and being told to go fish, so he approached Hitler instead.

Or maybe it was a bit of both.

Nutella33 said:
Ubersonic and you are the only "pro russian" posters (as you call them) that actually seem to be able to hold a topic in prose.

I'm not actually pro-Russian, I'm just not anti-Russian either, my posts just tend to come off pro-Russian as I tend to reply mostly to the anti-Russia posts rather than the Putin = good posts as I consider the latter mostly self defeating in their idiocy.

jl10000 said:
Putin is doing it all wrong! He needs to create the illusion of choice.

Clinton or Bush?

Red or Blue?

Obey or Gulag?

Nutella33 · 3 Mar 2015 at 10:50

I'm not actually pro-Russian, I'm just not anti-Russian either, my posts just tend to come off pro-Russian as I tend to reply mostly to the anti-Russia posts rather than the Putin = good posts as I consider the latter mostly self defeating in their idiocy.

A fair point I was just using his terminology for lack of my own thus the ".

Peacekeepers discussion on Friday between EU and Russia.

Two banks are insolvent in Ukraine.

ubersonic · 3 Mar 2015 at 11:10

Nutella33 said:
Two banks are insolvent in Ukraine.

Two? amateurs, we had at least 3-4 in 2010

Washout · 3 Mar 2015 at 11:16

areksnumbr1sxylady said:
I know, we on other hand we much more humane, cause we never did that to our own people.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/apr/23/british-empire-crimes-ignore-atrocities

1950`s

Boear war

1960`s

Kenya

This is just British Empire mind you....

http://listverse.com/2014/02/04/10-evil-crimes-of-the-british-empire/

Also we are so up for some democracy!

Boer war wasn't in the 50's. I'm Irish and certainly no fan of Britain's schenanigans but you're clutching at straws a bit here.

ubersonic · 3 Mar 2015 at 11:29

Washout said:
Boer war wasn't in the 50's.

Neither were the 1960's, I think you misread his post

maltrabob · 3 Mar 2015 at 20:29

One of those Russian "holidaymakers" - https://twitter.com/OnlineMagazin/status/572479139921461248

Full story (in Russian) here: http://www.novayagazeta.ru/society/67490.html

//edit: English version also available here: http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/03/02/the-story-of-a-russian-soldiers-war-in-ukraine-we-all-knew-what-we-had-to-do-and-what-could-happen/

And more hardworking local miners and tractor drivers taking medals for hitting targets :rolleyes:

- https://twitter.com/OnlineMagazin/status/572403416154148864,
https://twitter.com/bastqq/status/572489118497808384/photo/1

Full story (Russian/English) - http://en.censor.net.ua/photo_news/326888/russian_occupants_from_the_7th_military_base_in_abkhazia_awarded_medals_for_fighting_in_donbas_photos

Nutella33 · 3 Mar 2015 at 20:54

Second vice news part is up on that note as well.

Two? amateurs, we had at least 3-4 in 2010

Heh well yeah. Russia's had 14 downgraded on top of the national downgrade. Quite a few crimean businesses have been nationalised as well.

Will be interesting to see how much they've spent of their national reserves since the last figures were released.

Interesting if long read on the application of Russia's soft power >
http://www.interpretermag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/The_Menace_of_Unreality_Final.pdf

maltrabob · 3 Mar 2015 at 20:56

I think recently they mentioned spending $150bn of their $500bn reserve.

Nutella33 · 3 Mar 2015 at 21:04

maltrabob said:
I think recently they mentioned spending $150bn of their $500bn reserve.

A few measurements here. Yours looks to be about right

As of February 20, the last date for which data has been published, the Russian Central Bank said it had $364.6 billion in foreign currency reserves of its own.

Russia's other main sovereign fund, the National Wealth Fund, rose by $900 million in February to $74.92 billion, the ministry said Tuesday, although its value in ruble terms fell.

Thats pretty telling. added $900million but its value actually fell.

as is

The finance ministry said the government had used 500 billion rubles ($8 billion) from the fund to supplement a drop in budget revenue. That followed a separate withdrawal of 50.48 billion rubles in January.

Last month they had to dip in 50billion rubles from a seperate fund but this month 500billion? Cant be right surely?

http://news.yahoo.com/russias-currency-reserves-drop-state-finances-squeezed-105255393.html