Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
- Thread starter areksnumbr1sxylady
- Start date
- Status
The embarrassing thing is that when used as it was supposed to be, properly backed up with TOR and BUK and all the relevant sub-systems the S300/S400 were "supposed" to be able to deal with AGM-88 HARM and similar Western Anti-Radiation capabilities.
I mean yeah its no real surprise, considering that all other Russian capability so far has proven to not live up to expectation. At least not in the hands of Russians...
A lot of Russian military hardware was designed with the notion of fighting a total war against the West if not forefront in the design not far from it - quite a bit of their hardware lacks the finesse for want of a better way to put it to operate in the kind of war in Ukraine.
The equipment is for charging the Fulda Gap in 3 days, and so were the tactics, as demonstrated on day3 - when entire armoured formations had run out of fuel
Last edited:
The embarrassing thing is that when used as it was supposed to be, properly backed up with TOR and BUK and all the relevant sub-systems the S300/S400 were "supposed" to be able to deal with AGM-88 HARM and similar Western Anti-Radiation capabilities.
I mean yeah its no real surprise, considering that all other Russian capability so far has proven to not live up to expectation. At least not in the hands of Russians...
That's a great point. Sometimes it's not as simple as saying russian anti air systems suck, it can also be a case of improper use. But I do feel like the Russian systems are operating outside of their original designed operations and while that may work against poorly equipped enemies like some African or Syrian rebels it may not be enough against better equipped Ukranians.
The S300 should not really be operating on its own as has been mentioned, its radar view needs to overlap with TOR and BUK to defend itself against a wide range of targets. And Russia has lots of other issues such as being unable to identify friendly aircraft and shooting them down; I can't wait for the documentary to come from this war in the future when we get to hear exactly why their systems failed to do what they said it would.
Last edited:
EU President says they plan to make Russia pay to rebuild Ukraine and have already gathered 319 billion Euros of Russia's money for this. 300 billion is frozen Russian central bank reserve funds and 19 billion is assets seized from Russian Oligarchs.
www.globalconstructionreview.com
EU threatens to seize €300bn from Russia to rebuild Ukraine - Global Construction Review
EU Commission president Ursula von der Leyen today said the EU could seize €300bn of Russian Central Bank reserves and use it to rebuild Ukraine.
www.globalconstructionreview.com
Last edited:
Biden is considering expanding US training of Ukranian troops. Currently the US only provide training to small groups on certain weapons systems, but they are considering doing a major expansion to provide advanced combined arms training to 2500 soldiers per month.
This would be different to the training's happening in the UK. The UK is providing training for new recruits with no combat experience. The US wants to provide new skills and tools to experienced soldiers so they can better use tactics and integrate into a better combined arms force.
edition.cnn.com
This would be different to the training's happening in the UK. The UK is providing training for new recruits with no combat experience. The US wants to provide new skills and tools to experienced soldiers so they can better use tactics and integrate into a better combined arms force.
First on CNN: US considers dramatically expanding training of Ukrainian forces, US officials say | CNN Politics
The Biden administration is considering a dramatic expansion in the training the US military provides to Ukrainian forces, including instructing as many as 2,500 Ukrainian soldiers a month at a US base in Germany, according to multiple US officials.
edition.cnn.com
Last edited:
Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov:
- The OSCE Has a Huge Backlog of Problems
- West Was Counting On Russia Not to Regain Its Position Either in Europe or in the World
- It Expected Whole World to Live by the Rules of Liberal Democracy
- Course Towards Reckless Enlargement of NATO Has Devalued Basic Principles of OSCE’s Existence
- Course of NATO Enlargement Was Pursued Quite Consciously and Deliberately
- They Want to Keep Russians out of Europe, They Have the Whole EU Under Their Control
- NATO Brings Destruction and Suffering
- 16 Countries Were Members of NATO in 1991, Now There Are 30, With Sweden and Finland on the Brink
- They Are Building Up Their Forces and Assets, Moving Them Towards Russia
- They Are Conducting Manoeuvres Where Russia Is Openly Listed As An Adversary
- We Tried to Keep the Euro-Atlantic Situation Under Control to the Last Moment
- Last Year Putin Made a Proposal on Security Guarantees Both for Russia and Ukraine
- We Proposed Non Expansion of NATO and Security Pact for Ukraine and Everyone Else
- We Were Told ‘Every Country Has the Right to Join NATO’
- Washington and OSCE Had a Real Chance for De-Escalation
- But OSCE Structures Are ‘Fully Subordinated’ to U.S. and Brussels
- West Is Trying to ‘Privatise’, Seize OSCE
- When Macron Proposed European Political Community, He Invited Everyone Except Russia and Belarus
- Europe’s Security Space Is Finally Fragmenting
- OSCE Is Becoming a Marginal Entity
- There Will Be No Resumption of Previous Relations With the West
- South China Sea Is Becoming Region Where NATO Is Willing to Ratchet Up Tensions
- NATO Wanted to Drag India Into an Anti-China, Anti-Russia Alliance
- Just As U.S. Broke the OSCE, They Are Breaking Up ASEAN
- We Would Be Ready for Dialogue With West if They Revisited Documents We Set Out in December
- We Have Always Said That if Someone Wants to Negotiate, We Are Willing to Listen
- Pope Francis’ Comments Don’t Help Cause of Holy See
- We Attack Energy Facilities That Make It Possible for West to Pump Weapons Into Ukraine
- Don’t Say That U.S. and NATO Are Not Involved in the War, They Are
- They Participate With Arms Supply, Military Training on Their Territory
- Our Responsibility on Nuclear Arms With U.S. Has Not Gone Away
- We Had a Strong Statement in June 2021 That Nuclear War Cannot Be Unleashed
- We Were Ready to Go Further and Say Not Only Is It Wrong to Unleash Nuclear War but Any War Between Nuclear Powers Is Unacceptable
- We Will Not Supply Oil to Countries That Follow Lead of a Dictator
- We Are Not Interested in What the Price Cap Will Be
- For Russia, the Threat Posed by the U.S. From Ukraine Is Not Just Real, It Is Existential
- Before the Special Operation, We Warned Everyone for Many, Many Years
- We Never Avoid Contacts Between Putin, Biden
- We Haven’t Heard Any Substantive Ideas From U.S. Colleagues
- There Was a Meeting Between Naryshkin and Burns, the Meeting Was Supposed to Be Confidential
- But As Soon As They Flew to Turkey, the Information Leaked
- If There Are Any From the U.S. President or Other Members of the Administration, We Won’t Walk Away From Contact
- Blinken Called a Long Time Ago, but Was Only Interested in the Fate of Americans in Russian Prisons
- However a Channel for Negotiation Has Been Established Between the Special Services
https://www.reuters.com/world/russi...-india-into-anti-russian-alliance-2022-12-01/
https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...-security-body-is-hobbled-by-west-2022-12-01/
https://www.reuters.com/world/russi...e-direct-participants-ukraine-war-2022-12-01/
- The OSCE Has a Huge Backlog of Problems
- West Was Counting On Russia Not to Regain Its Position Either in Europe or in the World
- It Expected Whole World to Live by the Rules of Liberal Democracy
- Course Towards Reckless Enlargement of NATO Has Devalued Basic Principles of OSCE’s Existence
- Course of NATO Enlargement Was Pursued Quite Consciously and Deliberately
- They Want to Keep Russians out of Europe, They Have the Whole EU Under Their Control
- NATO Brings Destruction and Suffering
- 16 Countries Were Members of NATO in 1991, Now There Are 30, With Sweden and Finland on the Brink
- They Are Building Up Their Forces and Assets, Moving Them Towards Russia
- They Are Conducting Manoeuvres Where Russia Is Openly Listed As An Adversary
- We Tried to Keep the Euro-Atlantic Situation Under Control to the Last Moment
- Last Year Putin Made a Proposal on Security Guarantees Both for Russia and Ukraine
- We Proposed Non Expansion of NATO and Security Pact for Ukraine and Everyone Else
- We Were Told ‘Every Country Has the Right to Join NATO’
- Washington and OSCE Had a Real Chance for De-Escalation
- But OSCE Structures Are ‘Fully Subordinated’ to U.S. and Brussels
- West Is Trying to ‘Privatise’, Seize OSCE
- When Macron Proposed European Political Community, He Invited Everyone Except Russia and Belarus
- Europe’s Security Space Is Finally Fragmenting
- OSCE Is Becoming a Marginal Entity
- There Will Be No Resumption of Previous Relations With the West
- South China Sea Is Becoming Region Where NATO Is Willing to Ratchet Up Tensions
- NATO Wanted to Drag India Into an Anti-China, Anti-Russia Alliance
- Just As U.S. Broke the OSCE, They Are Breaking Up ASEAN
- We Would Be Ready for Dialogue With West if They Revisited Documents We Set Out in December
- We Have Always Said That if Someone Wants to Negotiate, We Are Willing to Listen
- Pope Francis’ Comments Don’t Help Cause of Holy See
- We Attack Energy Facilities That Make It Possible for West to Pump Weapons Into Ukraine
- Don’t Say That U.S. and NATO Are Not Involved in the War, They Are
- They Participate With Arms Supply, Military Training on Their Territory
- Our Responsibility on Nuclear Arms With U.S. Has Not Gone Away
- We Had a Strong Statement in June 2021 That Nuclear War Cannot Be Unleashed
- We Were Ready to Go Further and Say Not Only Is It Wrong to Unleash Nuclear War but Any War Between Nuclear Powers Is Unacceptable
- We Will Not Supply Oil to Countries That Follow Lead of a Dictator
- We Are Not Interested in What the Price Cap Will Be
- For Russia, the Threat Posed by the U.S. From Ukraine Is Not Just Real, It Is Existential
- Before the Special Operation, We Warned Everyone for Many, Many Years
- We Never Avoid Contacts Between Putin, Biden
- We Haven’t Heard Any Substantive Ideas From U.S. Colleagues
- There Was a Meeting Between Naryshkin and Burns, the Meeting Was Supposed to Be Confidential
- But As Soon As They Flew to Turkey, the Information Leaked
- If There Are Any From the U.S. President or Other Members of the Administration, We Won’t Walk Away From Contact
- Blinken Called a Long Time Ago, but Was Only Interested in the Fate of Americans in Russian Prisons
- However a Channel for Negotiation Has Been Established Between the Special Services
https://www.reuters.com/world/russi...-india-into-anti-russian-alliance-2022-12-01/
https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...-security-body-is-hobbled-by-west-2022-12-01/
https://www.reuters.com/world/russi...e-direct-participants-ukraine-war-2022-12-01/
Last edited:
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 21 Nov 2004
- Posts
- 46,383
What an epic sight. Wasn’t sure they’d be able to fly so close to the front. That’d really help the war effort, especially if Ukraine gets more planes.
Soldato
- Joined
- 4 Aug 2007
- Posts
- 22,024
- Location
- Wilds of suffolk
I'm wondering if the planes are a signal. All the talk early on in regards some countries handing over Migs and getting back filled with eg F16s.
Maybe the conclusion was there was a high chance Ukraine would quickly lose them, where as now maybe the conclusion is if Ukraine can demonstrate an ability to start to take control of the skies the time would be right to bolster that airforce.
The US training more troops and in advanced strategy, again, maybe they didn't want to risk that too early and if Ukraine fell to Russia all those Ukrainian troops would be well trained in NATO tactics etc.
Starting to wonder if Ukraine are passing a point of ability and sustained commitment that demonstrates giving them more will see this end up how the West wants, with Russia pushed out of Ukraine in total.
Ukraine being able to join NATO and the EU fairly rapidly.
I mean adding Sweden and Finland to NATO, adding a now bolstered Ukraine to NATO, its such a significant change you could almost say the CIA has been goading Putin to invade
Maybe the conclusion was there was a high chance Ukraine would quickly lose them, where as now maybe the conclusion is if Ukraine can demonstrate an ability to start to take control of the skies the time would be right to bolster that airforce.
The US training more troops and in advanced strategy, again, maybe they didn't want to risk that too early and if Ukraine fell to Russia all those Ukrainian troops would be well trained in NATO tactics etc.
Starting to wonder if Ukraine are passing a point of ability and sustained commitment that demonstrates giving them more will see this end up how the West wants, with Russia pushed out of Ukraine in total.
Ukraine being able to join NATO and the EU fairly rapidly.
I mean adding Sweden and Finland to NATO, adding a now bolstered Ukraine to NATO, its such a significant change you could almost say the CIA has been goading Putin to invade
I'm wondering if the planes are a signal. All the talk early on in regards some countries handing over Migs and getting back filled with eg F16s.
Maybe the conclusion was there was a high chance Ukraine would quickly lose them, where as now maybe the conclusion is if Ukraine can demonstrate an ability to start to take control of the skies the time would be right to bolster that airforce.
The US training more troops and in advanced strategy, again, maybe they didn't want to risk that too early and if Ukraine fell to Russia all those Ukrainian troops would be well trained in NATO tactics etc.
Starting to wonder if Ukraine are passing a point of ability and sustained commitment that demonstrates giving them more will see this end up how the West wants, with Russia pushed out of Ukraine in total.
Ukraine being able to join NATO and the EU fairly rapidly.
I mean adding Sweden and Finland to NATO, adding a now bolstered Ukraine to NATO, its such a significant change you could almost say the CIA has been goading Putin to invade
If Ukraine can take air supremacy Russian forces would likely collapse very quickly. It remains a bit vague as to how much air power and AD systems Russia can actually muster - a lot of the time their bigger complexes seem to be inactive.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 8 Jan 2004
- Posts
- 32,619
- Location
- Rutland
Turkey are a pretty dubious partner in NATO. Just trying to gain whatever they can from the situation.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 13 Apr 2013
- Posts
- 13,052
- Location
- La France
US Army tactical doctrine isn’t exactly secret. In fact, I believe most of the US Army Field Manuals including the one covering combined arms tactics can be purchased on that well known online store.I'm wondering if the planes are a signal. All the talk early on in regards some countries handing over Migs and getting back filled with eg F16s.
Maybe the conclusion was there was a high chance Ukraine would quickly lose them, where as now maybe the conclusion is if Ukraine can demonstrate an ability to start to take control of the skies the time would be right to bolster that airforce.
The US training more troops and in advanced strategy, again, maybe they didn't want to risk that too early and if Ukraine fell to Russia all those Ukrainian troops would be well trained in NATO tactics etc.
Starting to wonder if Ukraine are passing a point of ability and sustained commitment that demonstrates giving them more will see this end up how the West wants, with Russia pushed out of Ukraine in total.
Ukraine being able to join NATO and the EU fairly rapidly.
I mean adding Sweden and Finland to NATO, adding a now bolstered Ukraine to NATO, its such a significant change you could almost say the CIA has been goading Putin to invade
Soldato
- Joined
- 4 Aug 2007
- Posts
- 22,024
- Location
- Wilds of suffolk
Indeed but there is a difference between being trained and having a book about that training
Yes thats my thought they are struggling enough now, let alone if as well as artillery supremacy Ukraine were to gain air supremacy.
If the West believe the tipping point has been reached and cant flip back there is no worry about providing the tools for the hammer blow.
- Status