Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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martynr said:
Little **** liar as he is. Always gets a folder with history lessons. You can search the internets for the information. The guy still lives in the eighties and did not know that you can subscribe to youtube. If he was a real agent and not an arse sucker maybe should have learnt a thing or two in his FSB school. He was **** in it and did not learn the basics.
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The Finns took part in the siege of Leningrad.

I think they were the only other nation that participated.
 
Jono8 said:
Oh its the west doing that is it. Not the fact that your invaded them for no good reason and started bombing civilians?
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Definitely the west that's a danger to Kyiv. Nothing to do with the Russia at all. They just came to be friends.

I'd be interested to know what would happen if NATO moved a force to police the Ukraine/Belarus border. Allowing Ukraine to mop up the South and East fronts. At some point the human and economic cost of this war may necessitate direct action.
 
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Joint Declaration of 10 NATO Countries:
- Poland’s New Support to Ukraine Consists of S-60 Anti-Aircraft Guns With 70.000 Pieces of Ammunition
- Poland Is Ready to Donate a Company of Leopard 2 Tanks With 1000 Pieces of Ammunition, “Pending Wider Coalition” of Leopard 2 Donors
- Key Component of Further Czech Contribution to Ukraine Will Be Maintainance of Already Delivered Equipment
- Latvia to Donate Tens of Stinger Air Defence Systems, Two M-17 Helicopters, Tens of Machine Guns, UAVs, and Train 2000 Ukrainian Soldiers As Part of New Ukraine Support Package
- Estonia to Donate Tens of FH-70 and D-30 Howitzers, Hundreds of M2 Anti-Tank Grenade Launchers With Ammunition, Thousands of Rounds of 155mm Artillery Ammunition to Ukraine, Train Its Military
 
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bris said:
No they lost, they turned tails and fled, thats lost, anyone who says otherwise is delusional.

To win you need the enemy to be defeated, the Viet cong were anything but defeated, if anything their advances pushed the Americans out, with Saigon being the last straw.

Yea Russia lost in Afghanistan but America lost in both Vietnam and Afganistan, along with us, we have no victory to celebrate their either. The Falklands is what victory looks like.
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Its not that simple

The public demanded they withdrew from vietnam basically,
Likewise with US/UK in Afghan.
Its blatantly obvious if you open your eyes how many in the Western world are scared of war.
We have had people in this thread saying we should let Ukraine fall at risk of it escalating.
You either need crazy strong leaders or you aren't going to be able to fight a long war as a western nation (where you can withdraw) the public are too weak.

We even have people saying let Ukraine fall so the gas price goes back down, they would fully accept Russia selling gas to us again. Very hard to fight when at home thats your public.
 
Still feels too little too late. So many losses to the Ukraine military of experienced personnel due to the dragging of heels over the last year and not having enough. And so many losses to come as they only get limited amounts to be effective, it's quite frustrating to watch. If countries had started training them on various pieces of possible equipment early on then it may have added a little deterrence if the Russians knew what may come their way, and allow quicker response to provocations and escalations by transferring equipment.
 
Seen an interesting conversation from a guest on Speak the truth. His take is in the west we judge progress based on our values of protecting civilians, minimising your own casualties and the like. If we were to ignore that sand then judge Russian progress then the picture looks quite different. He then gives an example when he was over there of the Russians sending wave upon wave of soldiers WW1 style who were then gunned down so much so the Ukrainians had to use anti tank weapons to blow gaps into that "human sandbag" wall ready for the next assault. The story then continues that somehow the Ukrainian commander sent a message to the Russian one saying "look we can hear your wounded screaming pain. We're prepared to have a ceasefire so you can go treat them". The reply was "Go to hell. leave them there they have served their purpose" Russian mindset says "We have advanced 100 yards and denied our enemy that much ground. We win"
Until people "get" that sort of "casualties do not matter just the cause" then I fear The west is not as prepared as it should be.
 
nsmalley said:
Seen an interesting conversation from a guest on Speak the truth. His take is in the west we judge progress based on our values of protecting civilians, minimising your own casualties and the like. If we were to ignore that sand then judge Russian progress then the picture looks quite different. He then gives an example when he was over there of the Russians sending wave upon wave of soldiers WW1 style who were then gunned down so much so the Ukrainians had to use anti tank weapons to blow gaps into that "human sandbag" wall ready for the next assault. The story then continues that somehow the Ukrainian commander sent a message to the Russian one saying "look we can hear your wounded screaming pain. We're prepared to have a ceasefire so you can go treat them". The reply was "Go to hell. leave them there they have served their purpose" Russian mindset says "We have advanced 100 yards and denied our enemy that much ground. We win"
Until people "get" that sort of "casualties do not matter just the cause" then I fear The west is not as prepared as it should be.
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I'm not so sure.

With modern weapons, those tactics are fairly useless and it will just hit the Russian troops morale more and more.

If you ask me, Putin and Russia have actually completely underestimated Ukraine and the west's resolve.
 
I think thats a load of bull personally.

They are conscripts most of them, between a rock and a hard place, with everything to lose in Ukraine and back home in Russia if they desert/surrender or choose to fight. There mentality is that of survival.

It must take a tole, all of those bodies are horrific. The people back home live under a tough regime, they have everything to lose if they utter a word against it.

The casualties do matter. You see it here and there, a squad not following orders, another group killing their commanding officer. This will only get worse.
 
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Allnamestaken said:
I think thats a load of bull personally.

They are conscripts most of them, between a rock and a hard place, with everything to lose in Ukraine and back home in Russia if they desert/surrender or choose to fight. There mentality is that of survival.

It must take a tole, all of those bodies are horrific. The people back home live under a tough regime, they have everything to lose if they utter a word against it.

The casualties do matter. You see it here and there, a squad not following orders, another group killing their commanding officer. This will only get worse.
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Indeed. Putin has got to be really sure that the population is completely behind the reasons and cause for this war. Personally i doubt they are.
 
Allnamestaken said:
I think thats a load of bull personally.

They are conscripts most of them, between a rock and a hard place, with everything to lose in Ukraine and back home in Russia if they desert/surrender or choose to fight. There mentality is that of survival.

It must take a tole, all of those bodies are horrific. The people back home live under a tough regime, they have everything to lose if they utter a word against it.

The casualties do matter. You see it here and there, a squad not following orders, another group killing their commanding officer. This will only get worse.
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If you do not care about the odd incident and are confident you can always get more soldiers then such events are "just noise" Ofc logic says you will run out eventually, but I am starting to think the strategy is that "they will run out of will to supply Ukraine" before we run out of people. After that we have an entire new country to pillage that makes up for it. Russia is playing Zerg to Ukraine's Terran or Nato's Protoss..
 
Freakbro said:
TBF, Labour aren't clean in all this either, they accept Russian money too, it's just they've not been in power lately to have the influence.

Russia have been trying to influence/undermine the political system in the West for probably decades with their dirty money.
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Whilst I agree with you fundamentally, the impact it has had is vastly different.

The fact is, Labour have not been in power for the last 12 years,
Labour have not been making policy for the last 12 years,
Labour did not put the son of an FSB agent into the House of Lords.

The Tories have done all of the above.
 
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