Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Scougar said:
Good link. Thank you :)

I'm not sure it would have stopped the war from happening, but it certainly would have given some real meat to fire back with that's for sure. In hindsight, definitely seems like a poor choice.

Perhaps that's the lesson. Russia is just being Russia, and it doesn't really give a ****, and we should never had pretended they were 'doing better'. Maybe one day they will be grown up enough to stop thinking everyone wants to invade them, or that everything that looks shiny is theirs.
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We also have this.

Ukraine Eliminates Last of Its Strategic Bombers | Arms Control Association

www.armscontrol.org www.armscontrol.org

Disarm the country so it won't be able to defend itself. The Ukrainian government was also the do gooders for the country.
 
It's now becoming clear exactly what the oh so silent Scholtz real policy towards Ukraine is.

Most of the allies want a pure Ukranian victory; they would like a weakened Russia or even collapsed Putin government. The latter would result in a major shift in the world where Russia, China's only real ally would be weakened and Russia's neighbours in Eastern Europe can be allowed to become flourishing democracies and an economic strength in Europe. The alternative is a pure Russian victory, this would create a major shift in the world where communism becomes stronger and the NATO must immediately start preparing for a new Cold War.

Now Scholtz has different ideas - he does not want either of the two above outcomes. Scholtz likes the status quo, he likes trading with Russia and China and he doesn't want an economic powerhouse in the Eastern Europe block. For Scholtz the best outcome is a stalemate where Russia keeps part of Ukraine so they are happy and Eastern Europe is left in a weakened state but NATO doesn't need to worry about war right now. This outcome means Scholtz can go back to trading with Russia and doesn't need to worry about the economic competition from the East.

So now we can see that Germany's policy on tanks and other weapons sent to Ukraine is purposely at a level where Ukraine cannot win. Scholtz does not want a pure Ukranian victory, he wants a stalemate so he will not send weapons that could result in a Ukrainian victory - he wants the war to end with a weakened Eastern Europe and the global economy going to the status quo.


Publicly Scholtz will state that he won't send more advanced weapons because he doesn't want Germany to be attacked by Russia, but the reality is that he knows this won't happen but it's perfect excuse to hide his real motive which is that he does not want Ukraine to win, he does not want a world where he can't buy cheap gas from Russia, he does not want a world where Eastern Europe is an economic powerhouse.
 
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Grim5 said:
Oof last 24 hours have been exciting for air defense

"units of the anti-aircraft missile forces of the Ukrainian Air Force have destroyed two Russian Su-25 attack aircraft, a Ka-52 attack helicopter, two Kh-59 guided air missiles and an Orlan-10 UAV"
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Exciting? See this is probably why history repeats itself, because the younger generation seem to want some real life Call of Duty.
 
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*Deputy Head of Ukraine’s Presidential Office Tymoshenko Says Tendered His Resignation to Zelenskiy
https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...ymoshenko-tenders-his-resignation-2023-01-24/

Finnish Foreign Minister:
- A Timeout Is Needed in Talks With Turkey About Finnish and Swedish NATO Bids
- Best to Continue the Three-Way Talks With Turkey When the Dust Has Settled
- I Think There Will Be a Break for a Couple of Weeks Now in the NATO Talks Between Sweden-Finland-Turkey
- I Spoke With the Turkish Foreign Minister Yesterday and the Situation Is Hectic There Because of Elections but We Hope This Process Can Still Be Advanced
- I Do Not See the Need to Discuss Finland Moving on Without Sweden in NATO Process
- We Agreed With Turkey That We Will Continue Communicating As Before
- NATO’s Interest in Taking In Finland and Sweden at the Same Time Has Remained Unchanged As It for Example Eases Defence Planning
- We Are Talking About a Possible Delay in the Schedule Due to Turkey’s Elections
https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...d-talks-with-turkey-over-nato-bid-2023-01-24/
 
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Grim5 said:
Oof last 24 hours have been exciting for air defense

"units of the anti-aircraft missile forces of the Ukrainian Air Force have destroyed two Russian Su-25 attack aircraft, a Ka-52 attack helicopter, two Kh-59 guided air missiles and an Orlan-10 UAV"
Click to expand...

Hopefully this is a sign of Ukrainian air defence improving. Combined with fewer long range strikes from Russia, hopefully this is an area that will continue to improve.
 
*Ukrainian Defence Ministry: Ukrainian Deputy Defence Minister Resigns, Citing ‘Media Accusations’ of Corruption Around Army Food Supplies
*Ukrainian Defence Ministry: Deputy Minister Resigned Despite Corruption Accusations Being Groundless to Help Preserve Trust in Ministry
*Ukraine’s Deputy Prosecutor General Fired - Prosecutor General’s Office
 
Grim5 said:
It's now becoming clear exactly what the oh so silent Scholtz real policy towards Ukraine is.

Most of the allies want a pure Ukranian victory; they would like a weakened Russia or even collapsed Putin government. The latter would result in a major shift in the world where Russia, China's only real ally would be weakened and Russia's neighbours in Eastern Europe can be allowed to become flourishing democracies and an economic strength in Europe. The alternative is a pure Russian victory, this would create a major shift in the world where communism becomes stronger and the NATO must immediately start preparing for a new Cold War.

Now Scholtz has different ideas - he does not want either of the two above outcomes. Scholtz likes the status quo, he likes trading with Russia and China and he doesn't want an economic powerhouse in the Eastern Europe block. For Scholtz the best outcome is a stalemate where Russia keeps part of Ukraine so they are happy and Eastern Europe is left in a weakened state but NATO doesn't need to worry about war right now. This outcome means Scholtz can go back to trading with Russia and doesn't need to worry about the economic competition from the East.

So now we can see that Germany's policy on tanks and other weapons sent to Ukraine is purposely at a level where Ukraine cannot win. Scholtz does not want a pure Ukranian victory, he wants a stalemate so he will not send weapons that could result in a Ukrainian victory - he wants the war to end with a weakened Eastern Europe and the global economy going to the status quo.


Publicly Scholtz will state that he won't send more advanced weapons because he doesn't want Germany to be attacked by Russia, but the reality is that he knows this won't happen but it's perfect excuse to hide his real motive which is that he does not want Ukraine to win, he does not want a world where he can't buy cheap gas from Russia, he does not want a world where Eastern Europe is an economic powerhouse.
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What nonsense. Russia isn't a communist country, it is an oligarchy.

The truth is probably much simpler - Scholtz is what he always has been - a naive pacifist.

I think I have made this point before but what evidence is there that a win for Russia means that Germany will trade with them? A Ukraine win, with a humbled Russia, that needs trade with the EU to stabilize it is probably the ideal outcome for Germany. Of course there are countless other scenarios that are possible...
 
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German Defence Minister:
- NATO Must Not Become a Party in Ukraine War
- But NATO Supporting Ukraine, Germany Is in the Leading Group Doing This
- No New Position on Leopard Tanks
- Will Be Able to Act Very Quickly if There Is a Positive Decision on Leopard Tanks
- There Is No Disunity on Tank Issue
- Scholz Is Trying to Forge Consensus on Tanks Issue
NATO’s Stoltenberg:
- German Leadership Is More Important Than Ever
- Confident We Will Have a Solution Soon on Battle Tanks
- Battle Tanks Are Important to Be Able to Repel Russian Offensives and to Retake Territory
- Had Good Discussion With Pistorius Today on Issue of German Battle Tanks
- Discussion About Leopard Tanks Is “Natural Part” of Forming Policy
Joint Press conference: https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/events_67375.htm

*German Foreign Ministry State Secretary: Baerbock’s Position on Ukraine Tank Deliveries Is Well Known but at the End, the Chancellery Will Decide

Finnish Foreign Minister:
- US, UK, Several European Countries Have Said Temporary Security Guarantees Are Valid Even if NATO Process Is Prolonged
- Spoke With Sweden Today and We Said We Will Maintain Our Policy That We Apply Together
- We See That a Joint Way Into NATO Is Still Possible for Finland and Sweden and Now We Need to Do Everything to Make That Happen
- The Optimism Stems From Results Achieved in Earlier Meetings With Turkey
- I Don’t Believe Things Will Advance Before Turkish Election
 
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Grim5 said:
80% of convicts Wagner recruited are now dead or wounded and unable to fight

That's not just an indictment of Wagner, it's a window into the atrocious conditions of the front line that 80% of those in the frontal assaults end up dead or seriously injured

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Unsupported frontal assaults across open ground have been a Bad Idea forever. They were upgraded to Very Bad Ideas in WW1 where the attackers faced machine gun and artillery fire whilst advancing. Advancing through ground where the enemy has pre-registered artillery and ant-personnel missile launchers under constant drone surveillance should be call an Utterly Suicidal Idea.
 
Grim5 said:
80% of convicts Wagner recruited are now dead or wounded and unable to fight

That's not just an indictment of Wagner, it's a window into the atrocious conditions of the front line that 80% of those in the frontal assaults end up dead or seriously injured

Click to expand...

You have to wonder if it was Russia's intention to get rid of their 'undesirables'
 
Terminal_Boy said:
Unsupported frontal assaults across open ground have been a Bad Idea forever. They were upgraded to Very Bad Ideas in WW1 where the attackers faced machine gun and artillery fire whilst advancing. Advancing through ground where the enemy has pre-registered artillery and ant-personnel missile launchers under constant drone surveillance should be call an Utterly Suicidal Idea.
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Not open ground once you litter the land with enough dead bodies, Russia clearly have 1000 IQ in that regard.
 
diamount said:
You have to wonder if it was Russia's intention to get rid of their 'undesirables'
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It's brilliant idea, andd if they can kill a few Ukranians along the way then the plan has worked.
It seems with the mass sackings about to happen in Ukraine that some people will always try to make money through corruption, even when their country is fighting for survival...
 
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