Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Even Russia's elite tank force might start to deploy old T62 tanks into their ranks!
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Wagner has some spicy words for the Kremlin right now.

The head of Russia's Wagner private army has said it is not getting the ammunition it needs from Moscow, as it seeks to gain control of Bakhmut.

Russian troops - from Wagner and regular Russian forces - are trying to seize the eastern city from Ukraine.

But Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin has complained of a lack of ammunition, saying it could be "ordinary bureaucracy or a betrayal".
Relations between Wagner and Moscow seem increasingly tense.

The Wagner group has tens of thousands of troops in Ukraine - some recruited directly from Russian prisons - and has become a key part of Moscow's invasion.

In the post on Sunday, Mr Prigozhin said documents were signed on 22 February, with ammunition expected to be sent to Bakhmut the next day. But most has not been shipped, he said, before suggesting it could be deliberate.

Separately, in a video posted on Saturday - but seemingly filmed in February - Mr Prigozhin said Russia's front line would collapse without his troops.

"If now Wagner PMC [private military company] retreats from Bakhmut, then the entire front will crumble, and today PMC Wagner is cementing it.

"On the one hand, we are pulling the entire Ukrainian army onto ourselves, grinding and destroying it, and do not give it the opportunity to concentrate in other sectors of the front.

"On the other hand, we are moving forward and the rest [an apparent reference to the Russian military] are forced to somehow catch up in order to save face."
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(Source).
 
Rroff said:
US reach logistics, aided by other NATO countries especially the UK, can move 100s of tanks and 1000s of armoured fighting vehicles by air in just a few days - IIRC they can surge to just over 200 C-5s, C-17s, etc. as well as 2 civilian carriers with 30-40 heavy lift aircraft each which are essentially military contractors - that doesn't include any requisition of civilian airlines, etc. before it comes to moving stuff by ship.

War time production is crazy - it is amazing what can be achieved when it comes to it.

EDIT: There isn't a lot of information about it online but this gives a bit of a overview: https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/0...y-move-u-s-troops-and-spies-around-the-globe/
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I doubt the Yanks have the raw materials and industrial capacity to allow them to do a quarter of what they managed in WW2. And that’s before you start asking who’s going to supply the additional workforce needed.
 
Terminal_Boy said:
I doubt the Yanks have the raw materials and industrial capacity to allow them to do a quarter of what they managed in WW2. And that’s before you start asking who’s going to supply the additional workforce needed.
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I agree; much of US industrial production has been shutdown. You can't convert factories to war time production when you don't have factories anymore

The US is planning to increase its 155mm shell production by 6 fold over the next 3 years but even after its done, production will still be far under what would be required in a world war and it's still going to take them years of this increased production level to try and replace what has been lost to Ukraine in 12 months

NATO countries have a major disadvantage to military production should a large war breakout, the industrial capacity just doesn't exist - you'll have to buy your ammunition from China!
 
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Terminal_Boy said:
I doubt the Yanks have the raw materials and industrial capacity to allow them to do a quarter of what they managed in WW2. And that’s before you start asking who’s going to supply the additional workforce needed.
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^^ This. People forget that the World Wars were maintained only by shifting the entire economy to a full time war footing. Demands on resources and manpower were utterly immense. The Japanese were melting down toy factory moulds for metal. Food was strictly rationed across the UK. It was incredibly difficult.

Nowadays we have limited wars that can be maintained without too much disruption to the economy and workforce. But the tradeoff is a greatly reduced military stockpile.
 
Rroff said:
This is curious as shovels/trench digging equipment is one of the things Russia has a shortage of for equipping deployed forces

www.bbc.co.uk

Ukraine war: Russian reservists fighting with shovels - UK defence ministry

Troops could be engaging in hand-to-hand combat in Ukraine, Britain's defence ministry says.
www.bbc.co.uk
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Reminds me of a scene from the TV show Sharpe that took place at the siege of Badajoz. The French counter attacked the British sappers who were digging trenches for their canons and Sharpe regrouped his men and beat the French back with digging equipment.
 
During the 1970`s and 80`s, the USA and UK had an annual rapid deployment to pre positioned equipment - it was called Exercise ReForGer - Return of Forces to Germany. Rapid air delivery of troops; the last in 1993 was the entire 1st Armoured and 4th Infantry Divisions, along with most of BAOR.
 
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Terminal_Boy said:
That’s going to really boost their elite tankers morale, giving them T-62s fitted with night vision gear off eBay when they were due to get T-14s.
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There is a bit of an error on that slide, they seem to have based it off the T-62 (from the 1960s) not the T-62M/MV (from the 1980s), it's a small difference as the latter is merely a rebuild of the former (similar to how the Challenger 3 tanks are scheduled to be built using existing Challenger 2s) but the T-62M/MV do in some cases have ERA fitted (and in all cases have the ability to fit it).

While it's easy to laugh at the idea of T-62M/MVs being dragged out of storage it's important to note that they only went into storage in 2009 and so are likely to be in better condition than anything else coming out of storage. Plus they can fire anti-tank guided missiles (assuming Russia have any left to issue with them) and have better thermal optics than most of the T-72s Russia sent out there. So while old they still have teeth, I wouldn't want to end up on the business end of one.

From the Russian tankers POV it will probably be quite underwhelming to be given a tank as old as you are (or in some cases older), but considering every other type of Russian tank is getting obliterated anyway it's not like driving a T-62M/MV is going to be any more hazardous to your health than another type, hell given that they don't have the autoloader made from explodium that the T-72/90 do it may even be good for your health lol.
 
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Minusorange said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Ukraine war: Bakhmut defenders double down - Zelensky

The president says the embattled eastern city's defence goes on, and that senior generals back the move.
www.bbc.co.uk

Seems like they're determined to not give it up despite the losses
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You have to think the Yanks and NATO top military are advising Ukraine on this. They have shown they have moved on from Soviet doctrine unlike Russia, maybe they see something we don't. I hope it isn't just a stubbornness and its a lost cause. .
 
Easiest way to spot a T62m or MV is the addon armour on the turret and glacis plate (M), or the ERA blocks on the turret (MV) . curved glacis plate and turret is an old version.
 
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