This is a hilariously slanted way of presenting it. If you hadn't noticed, that "Western European army" attacked pretty much everyone else in Western Europe too....so its geographical location of Western Europe isn't that aligned to the geo-political stance of Western Europe is it.
Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
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This is a hilariously slanted way of presenting it. If you hadn't noticed, that "Western European army" attacked pretty much everyone else in Western Europe too....so its geographical location of Western Europe isn't that aligned to the geo-political stance of Western Europe is it.
Soldato
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It could be argued all this has done is show Europe what an unreliable partner Russia was/is and falling back on the US was inevitable. Yes Europe has lost out in the short term but in the long term it will win. There is a Europe friendly president and Congress in place atm which is far better than 3 years ago. Far better that then being held hostage by Putin as it became more and more reliant on Russian energy
Sorry I won't accept the US wanted this war. Biden could really have done without it, he had enough problems at homw without the added inflation from an energy shortage. Yes in the long run it is good for the US but you won't convince a big % of its population of that atm because it has been politicised into a left vs right with a good % of the right being against supporting Ukraine.
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Yep I can almost see the Germans charging into Russia again.
If people keep blaming historical things for current issues, then we wind up with stupid situations like this.
Most of the people involved in WW2 are now dead, or on the way there, their motives and reasons probably made sense to them at the time, but these days I like to think that in general the advent of the internet and information for all means that most people are a little better connected to the fact that war = bad.
Almost as if in 1939 that same said `western european army` (which was central european bu meh) had the support of an eastern european army, by a pre war agreement....
Soldato
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Incorrect, Trump simply wanted NATO countries to pay the minimum amount they agreed to, and for Germany to stop buying Russian oil - actively funding the military the US was paying to defend Germany against, who weren't meeting their defense spending commitment. Surprised you're not mentioning that considering what a ******* fantastic point Trump had and how he was proved correct so spectacularly.
Trump blasts Germany over gas pipeline deal with Russia
President Trump used the NATO summit to criticize allies, including Germany, over a natural gas pipeline deal with Russia. He also upset tradition by demandi...youtu.be
Germany painfully naïve.
Roar when his own people in the room are saying he wanted to pull out of NATO its probably a good idea to believe he wanted to pull out of NATO. Now maybe Congress could have blocked it but it doesn't change the fact he wanted to do it. And a NATO without the US is a terrifying prospect.
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Soldato
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Russia was allied with Germany at the beginning of WW2 and invade Poland (Europe) soon after the Germans did... they also did the same in the Baltic States.
Russia had no intention of entering the war until they were forced to. They were quite happy to sit back and let others do the fighting whilst picking of bit of Eastern Europe for the themselves whilst the rest of us were preoccupied.
Your version of events are a fantasy the world was prepared to go along with because Russia eventually did something right toward the end of the war, but then quickly reverted back to type as soon as the war ended.
Russia has brought nothing but misery to its neighbours. They want out, and that's what NATO offers.
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It's not my version of events, this is how the Russians view Europe. I'm quite aware that Russian shipments of iron were arriving in Germany probably at the same time as Operation Barbarossa kicking off in Eastern Poland, but no one views themselves as the aggressors.
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Soldato
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They are more deluded than you are.
Russia were the aggressors. This is long before Operation Barbarossa. It's the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact which agreed (secretly) that Russia and Germany would split Eastern Europe. But the Germans double crossed them.
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German-Soviet Pact
The German-Soviet Pact paved the way for the joint invasion and occupation of Poland by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union in September 1939.
NATO minus the US still has a population of 600 million people, if those countries funded their militaries at an appropriate level they absolutely should have nothing to fear from Russia, a country with a quarter of the population.
Very much doubt they did, US had switched focus to countering the growing threat from the growing power and influence of China, and I feel they still see the Indo-Pacific region as the main focus.
The same can be said for the UK government. The Integrated review that took place in 21 basically switched our focus to threats in the Indo-Pacific region. whilst still keeping an eye on Russia. Sadly Russias action over the past year has completely rewritten our immediate priorities and forced a rethink to the defence and foreign policy.
Nobody wanted it. Sadly this is the situation the world is in now.
German-Soviet Pact
The German-Soviet Pact paved the way for the joint invasion and occupation of Poland by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union in September 1939.encyclopedia.ushmm.org
Why are you banging on about WW2? Nothing you post changes the fact that Russia was invaded and lost 20 million people, of course they view themselves as victims of Nazi aggression, irrespective of what we think or what happened prior to that.
Irrelevant.
If sovereign countries want to group together in a mutual protection agreement (which is essentially what NATO is) that is entirely THEIR CHOICE.
Your argument is entirely flawed.
Because YOU are banging on about WW2 and need your entire lack of knowledge (yet have an opinion) corrected.
What are you even responding to? Because I know it isn't simply my point that NATO should be able to manage without the US if they funded their militaries properly.
So simplistic. Hardly a surprise from a Trump fan.Incorrect, Trump simply wanted NATO countries to pay the minimum amount they agreed to, and for Germany to stop buying Russian oil - actively funding the military the US was paying to defend Germany against, who weren't meeting their defense spending commitment. Surprised you're not mentioning that considering what a ******* fantastic point Trump had and how he was proved correct so spectacularly.
Trump blasts Germany over gas pipeline deal with Russia
President Trump used the NATO summit to criticize allies, including Germany, over a natural gas pipeline deal with Russia. He also upset tradition by demandi...
Germany painfully naïve.
The leverage worked both ways - Germany hoped to control Russia by making it dependant on it's market just as Russia hoped to have some influence over Germany. It turned out neither had as much control as they hoped for. So 'Russia totally controls' Germany was a BS statement.
If Russia has aligned themselves with China 15 years ago then western sanctions would have been far less effective.
What are YOU even posting about?
Firstly you bring up WW2, then you try to blame others for responding to your incorrect assumptions about WW2.
Are you having a stroke?
Yeah, but what's to debate about that? I'm saying what Russia's views are. Telling me Russia also did bad things doesn't change the fact that Russia see themselves as victims of Nazi aggression. They do think that, quite strongly. There's no debate to be had there unless you want to go tell Putin and most of Russia that they deserve to be invaded by Hitler lol
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Caporegime
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Thread has been derailed by one posters whataboutism. Don't get baited into it chaps, go enjoy the sunshine.
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