Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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I find it strange the Ukrainian leader is either talking it down saying it won't happen and/or demanding the US give him evidence, either he's been offered or job by Putin or is in total denial. Either that or his private plane is waiting on the runway to fly him to Poland or wherever.

Well Russia and West backed Ukraine into a noose. What can he do apart from stick fingers in his ears and go LA - LA - LA.

Implementing Minsk Agreements = Suicidal, 80% of Ukranians oppose them. The population with latest shipments of weapons believes they can hold back full on Russian invasion. It does not help that Ukranian propaganda has been saying they have actively fought full Russian army since 2014.

Russian Invasion = Ukraine is done for

The West screaming war = Ukranian economy is tanking like a rock

So he's been busy cancelling any opposition media/politicians while there is all this noise. He's becoming a mini-Putin and we seem to not care.

https://www.politico.eu/article/volodymyr-zelenskiy-office-accuses-petro-poroshenko-treason-ukraine/

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-san...olitician-and-tycoon-medvedchuk/31112119.html

https://www.eureporter.co/world/ukraine/2022/02/10/another-tv-channel-may-be-closed-in-ukraine/

He's mopping both sides, pro-russian and pro-EU opposition.
 
You literally quoted an article about Russian made BUKM3 released in 2013 and said look it can intercept missiles. So Ukranian one can too!
No I didn't please don't make things up, in post 6127 you asked for additional evidence that Buks could intercept missiles as you didn't believe Russias reports from the 90s, so I linked you a more recent source.


2) The T-72 Russia fields is heavily modified.
They are but upgraded T-72 are still inferior to upgraded T-64. It's not like Ukraine are still using tanks as they left the factory 40 years ago, these things are upgraded/modernised over time, when new things are added to the latest models they get retrofitted to the older ones during their maintenance cycles. Hence it's unlikely there's any original T-72/64 in active service in either Russia or Ukraine.

I'm not trying to be rude but it kind of shows you don't know that much about tanks and are just quoting things from Wikipedia without understanding what you're quoting (which is perfectly understandable as the USSR/Russia/Ukraine made an absolute disaster of the numbering scheme for their tanks) so I will try and explain the hierarchy of Soviet/ex-Soviet tanks:

From best to worst (factoring in latest upgrades):

1: T-14 - Not combat tested yet, but as the first "new" tank produced by any former Soviet state this century this automatically tops the list.
2: T-84 - Developed from the T-80 the Ukrainian T-84 is considered the best evolution of a Soviet era tank line.
4: T-80 - Based on the T-64 the T-80 was designed as a more modern replacement.
3: T-90 (1990s model) - Developed from the T-72 (technically an upgraded T-72, originally designated T-72BU) with some of the upgrades of the T-80 added.
5: T-64 - The main tank of the USSR throughout the 60s/70s/80s, never exported even to allies.
6: T-90 (2000s model) - Remember when I said they made a disaster of the numbering scheme? 21st century T-90s are actually a weaker model designed for export, even the Russian ones as they couldn't afford to order 90's spec armour.
7: T-72 - A highly mass producible uncomplicated tank designed as a budget alternative to it's big brother the T-64.
8: T-54/55/62 - The early cold war MBTs of the USSR, retired by both Russia and Ukraine but still in use in many poor third/second world countries, included here just so we have a baseline for worst.

This list is of course accurate only when comparing tanks that have received their latest respective upgrades.


But to reiterate the original point, no Russia would not easily win the ground war without air superiority due to superior tanks and tank numbers as they have neither.
 
No I didn't please don't make things up, in post 6127 you asked for additional evidence that Buks could intercept missiles as you didn't believe Russias reports from the 90s, so I linked you a more recent source.



They are but upgraded T-72 are still inferior to upgraded T-64. It's not like Ukraine are still using tanks as they left the factory 40 years ago, these things are upgraded/modernised over time, when new things are added to the latest models they get retrofitted to the older ones during their maintenance cycles. Hence it's unlikely there's any original T-72/64 in active service in either Russia or Ukraine.

I'm not trying to be rude but it kind of shows you don't know that much about tanks and are just quoting things from Wikipedia without understanding what you're quoting (which is perfectly understandable as the USSR/Russia/Ukraine made an absolute disaster of the numbering scheme for their tanks) so I will try and explain the hierarchy of Soviet/ex-Soviet tanks:

From best to worst (factoring in latest upgrades):

1: T-14 - Not combat tested yet, but as the first "new" tank produced by any former Soviet state this century this automatically tops the list.
2: T-84 - Developed from the T-80 the Ukrainian T-84 is considered the best evolution of a Soviet era tank line.
4: T-80 - Based on the T-64 the T-80 was designed as a more modern replacement.
3: T-90 (1990s model) - Developed from the T-72 (technically an upgraded T-72, originally designated T-72BU) with some of the upgrades of the T-80 added.
5: T-64 - The main tank of the USSR throughout the 60s/70s/80s, never exported even to allies.
6: T-90 (2000s model) - Remember when I said they made a disaster of the numbering scheme? 21st century T-90s are actually a weaker model designed for export, even the Russian ones as they couldn't afford to order 90's spec armour.
7: T-72 - A highly mass producible uncomplicated tank designed as a budget alternative to it's big brother the T-64.
8: T-54/55/62 - The early cold war MBTs of the USSR, retired by both Russia and Ukraine but still in use in many poor third/second world countries, included here just so we have a baseline for worst.

This list is of course accurate only when comparing tanks that have received their latest respective upgrades.


But to reiterate the original point, no Russia would not easily win the ground war without air superiority due to superior tanks and tank numbers as they have neither.

I'm not going to bother debating on the tank ranking scale - that's a huge can of worms over there. Considering that you are using fully upgraded 'tech tree' there is not a single analysts who puts T-84 Oplot above T-90M/S - at best on equal level. Let alone below T-64... You did specifically say From Best to worst (Factoring in latest Upgrades).

1) The only proven BUK to intercept missiles that is not some herasay from 90's is BUKM3 released in 2013 by Russia. Ukraine does not have that. You said Ukranian's BUK's have capability to intercept missiles. I am still waiting for proof.

2) If you actually bothered to read my post I explained to you the issue about T-72 vs T-64. T-72B3 is a direct (albeit minorly inferior) competitor to top of the line T-64 Bulat. I did not even bother mentioning T-72B3M which is an upgrade over T-72B3. Now the problem is that Ukraine only has 100 or so upgraded T-64 to Bulat level. Meanwhile Russia has as of 2021, (850) T-72B3, (550) T-72B3M.

Again that is before we dive into wormhole that Russia at this point probably has 3K upgraded T-80 in service per Roff.

Please post your 1-8 on a tank enthusiast forum and let them laugh you out the door.

Lastly, please explain Ukranian tank losses in 400+ range within 2 years. As I remember, the Russians supplied rebels with T-72B3's most of the time which are hardly most advanced tank in Russian arsenal. I don't recall hearing them being stomped by superior Ukranian tanks.

I mean your last point really has me in stitches

due to superior tanks and tank numbers as they have neither.

Russian army (not rebels) do not have superior tanks in larger quantities than Ukraine. Oh lord. Aka Russia has less tanks and Russian tanks are worse than Ukranian tanks.
 
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Could all be KGB style plot to destabilise Ukraine, cause a coup and install a pro-Russia stooge rather than a prelude to a huge invasion. Think about it. You build up massive forces on the border causing foreign governments to start talking about invasions. People start withdrawing their cash and leaving Ukraine. Companies start to pull their money out of Ukraine and relocate Westwards. And as Ukraine slowly descends into chaos you use your spooky little operatives to stir up the mob and watch as Ukrainians do the job for you.
 
I've realised why Russia hasn't invaded yet. Putin's Generals are eagerly watching the tactical discussion on our forum, waiting for the armchair military experts to decide whether Ukraine has decent armaments.

At least when Trump was in he seemed to have control over all these nutters.
Yep. No-one knew what Trump would do. He was unpredictable. People don't take chances with unpredictability.
 
I've realised why Russia hasn't invaded yet. Putin's Generals are eagerly watching the tactical discussion on our forum, waiting for the armchair military experts to decide whether Ukraine has decent armaments.


Yep. No-one knew what Trump would do. He was unpredictable. People don't take chances with unpredictability.


Did'nt the russian nutters have control of trump because they had footage of him getting pee'd on by hookers in moscow? :cry:
 
I've realised why Russia hasn't invaded yet. Putin's Generals are eagerly watching the tactical discussion on our forum, waiting for the armchair military experts to decide whether Ukraine has decent armaments.


Yep. No-one knew what Trump would do. He was unpredictable. People don't take chances with unpredictability.
Ha, I sometimes wonder if I’ve accidentally stumbled across the BAE systems staff forum
 
The last few days, the BBC are often heading their website articles with photographs of Ukraine civil guard (or whatever) exercises. Those photos show Ukrainian tanks live firing exercises, people with petrol bombs etc.

Personally, I think that is creating a misleading impression that fighting has already started.
 
Russian army (not rebels) do not have superior tanks in larger quantities than Ukraine. Oh lord. Aka Russia has less tanks and Russian tanks are worse than Ukranian tanks.
/sigh

I'm not sure if you're not reading the posts you reply too, or if maybe English isn't your first language. But I will try one more time to explain it to you.

If Russia invade Ukraine they are not going to send every single tank, soldier and plane in the entire country to do it, this would be stupid. Ukraine on the other hand can commit every single tank, soldier, etc to the resulting war as the equipment is already there and not needed for anything else (I.E guarding borders with China or NATO/EU members). This means Ukraine can utilize 100% of their military inventory, Russia cannot. This means that Russia's advantage in tank numbers disappears because they're not all there, this means they would have even numbers at best and be outnumbered at worst.

It also means that because they would be relying mostly on T-72 plus some T-80/90 and Ukraine would be relying mostly on T-64 plus some T-80/84 that Russian tank units would be facing equipment of equal performance at best and superior performance at worst.

I'm sorry but I cannot explain it any simpler than this.
 
Could all be KGB style plot to destabilise Ukraine, cause a coup and install a pro-Russia stooge rather than a prelude to a huge invasion.
There's always the chance that as soon as enough equipment is in Belarus for the "invasion" Lukashenko announces that Belarus has re-joined Russia and he is now president for life of the Belorussian Oblast xD
 
Yep. No-one knew what Trump would do. He was unpredictable. People don't take chances with unpredictability.

Just a few months into his term he dropped the mother of all bombs on the Afghan/Pakistan border. I think that sent a message to other leaders. Biden likes copying previous presidents, he should try that.
 
There's always the chance that as soon as enough equipment is in Belarus for the "invasion" Lukashenko announces that Belarus has re-joined Russia and he is now president for life of the Belorussian Oblast xD

Definitely a possibility. Can see a few puckered rear-ends in Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia if that did happen.
 
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