Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

[Grim5]

From cnn

"Sullivan added that the US views the provision of cluster munitions as “temporary” until more unitary rounds can be produced.

“We view that as temporary because many months ago, we began the intensive process of ramping up our unitary round production. Once it hits a level where unitary round production can satisfy Ukraine's needs, then there will be no need to continue giving cluster munitions,” he said"

 

[Grim5]

Zelensky has flown to the nato meeting and it sounds like Ukraine will get some security guarantees for post war

 

[bris]

It's strange that NATO would make a promise to Ukraine that they'll become a member when it would likely trigger World War 3. Is Zelensky expecting to join NATO and have the US and Europe fight Russia on the battlefield?

They say they could or will become members but not while the war is still ongoing

I think Zelensky is either mistaken or deluded into thinking they will be members before the war is over.

 

[VincentHanna]

It's strange that NATO would make a promise to Ukraine that they'll become a member when it would likely trigger World War 3. Is Zelensky expecting to join NATO and have the US and Europe fight Russia on the battlefield?

Nato countries are walking a dizzying tightrope at this summit.

All the leaders here sympathise with Ukraine’s demand for a firm timetable for Nato membership. They understand Zelensky’s deep desire to be shielded by the alliance’s all-for-one-and-one-for-all mutual defence clause - but the debate is a complex one here.

If Ukraine was admitted into Nato during a ceasefire with Russia – would that ceasefire hold?

If not, would France, Germany, the UK and other Nato nations willingly put their soldiers’ lives on the line in Ukraine, coming into direct conflict with nuclear power Russia, with the risk of the war escalating? This is something Nato has desperately tried to avoid from the start.

Some Nato countries also worry aloud if Russia knows a ceasefire with Ukraine will definitely mean Kyiv being admitted into Nato, Moscow could be tempted to prolong its aggression even further. Nato diplomats agonised over the wording of a text on Ukraine membership in the lead-up to the summit, hoping to sound inviting and confident but not specific on timing.

It will come as no surprise if that doesn’t change during the summit, Ukraine will be disappointed and – with Moscow watching events closely – the alliance risks damaging that firm show of Western unity it so wants to present to Vladimir Putin.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-66140072?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=64ad4464c3502b6dfaaff47e%26Nato%20walks%20diplomatic%20tightrope%20on%20Ukraine%20membership%262023-07-11T12%3A07%3A40.377Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:0f9fda34-0e3d-4a9b-8dd4-aef3404e98c2&pinned_post_asset_id=64ad4464c3502b6dfaaff47e&pinned_post_type=share

 

[Stumble Bum]

They say they could or will become members but not while the war is still ongoing

I think Zelensky is either mistaken or deluded into thinking they will be members before the war is over.

Where did Zelensky say anything about becoming members before the war is over?

 

[Grim5]

NATO should be ready to accept Ukraine as soon as possible after the end of the Russian-Ukrainian war, - British Defense Minister Ben Wallace."Whenever this conflict ends, we must be ready to accept Ukraine into NATO as soon as possible.This is really important, because Russia will primarily cling to countries that failed to join or are transitioning from non-membership to membership. This can make them vulnerable," said the minister.Wallace emphasized that NATO maintains an open door policy, but membership of a country at war poses a threat to the Alliance."NATO members must work together to ensure that Russia fails before allowing Ukraine to join the alliance," Wallace added.

 

[Stretch]

It's strange that NATO would make a promise to Ukraine that they'll become a member when it would likely trigger World War 3. Is Zelensky expecting to join NATO and have the US and Europe fight Russia on the battlefield?

Why would it trigger ww3?

NATO troops (or even the threat of) in Ukraine would mean an end to that war in days. Unless Russia escalated to using nukes… is that what you’re suggesting would happen?

 

[XPE]

Has it all went quite on the F-16 front?

 

[Roar87]

Why would it trigger ww3?

NATO troops (or even the threat of) in Ukraine would mean an end to that war in days. Unless Russia escalated to using nukes… is that what you’re suggesting would happen?

If everyone thought NATO troops would end the war in days then we would have done that, the fact that we haven't should tell you otherwise.

 

[M1k3H]

Yea, Russia are holding back their best men and equipment and could rival the whole of Nato. It is obvious. /s

 

[StriderX]

If everyone thought NATO troops would end the war in days then we would have done that, the fact that we haven't should tell you otherwise.

We could feasibly double the amount forces in Ukraine in a fairly short period of time that Russia could not respond quickly enough against... so the only reason to not do so is because the risk of nuclear exchange is too high. There can never be peace with such a nation as that, only ever a temporary ceasefire, so the only considerations we should be thinking about right now is when, where and whether we want the other side taking the initiative first.

 

[Uther]

NATO should be ready to accept Ukraine as soon as possible after the end of the Russian-Ukrainian war, - British Defense Minister Ben Wallace."Whenever this conflict ends, we must be ready to accept Ukraine into NATO as soon as possible.This is really important, because Russia will primarily cling to countries that failed to join or are transitioning from non-membership to membership. This can make them vulnerable," said the minister.Wallace emphasized that NATO maintains an open door policy, but membership of a country at war poses a threat to the Alliance."NATO members must work together to ensure that Russia fails before allowing Ukraine to join the alliance," Wallace added.

I wonder where Crimea fits in there.

 

[Stretch]

If everyone thought NATO troops would end the war in days then we would have done that, the fact that we haven't should tell you otherwise.

It’s obviously preferable to let Ukraine win that fight for many reasons. Not least the message it sends to Russians about the true levels of mismanagement their country has seen throughout the Putin years.

You still haven’t answered my question.

Why would it trigger ww3?

NATO troops (or even the threat of) in Ukraine would mean an end to that war in days. Unless Russia escalated to using nukes… is that what you’re suggesting would happen?

It’s the bit right before the question mark in case you missed it.

 

[S.A.S]

Why would it trigger ww3?

NATO troops (or even the threat of) in Ukraine would mean an end to that war in days. Unless Russia escalated to using nukes… is that what you’re suggesting would happen?

Poland alone seems eager to get involved, I've never seen more hatred of the Russians than Polish people I've spoken to over the past months.

Edit: par Ukrainians obviously

 

[Stretch]

It could go like this

• Set a date for Ukraine to join NATO. Within 6 months.
• Massive build up of NATO troops and military hardware in Eastern Europe.
• Offer the Russians a deal which expires the on the day Ukraine is set to join.
• Crank up the military support for Ukraine
• Send special forces in to cause some real havoc in the preceding month or two.
• Make it fairly clear NATO airpower will be used if they let the deal lapse.
• If they want to use nukes to defend something they are going to lose anyway that’s on them.
• It’s all over before Christmas.

 

[SixTwoSix]

Poland alone seems eager to get involved, I've never seen more hatred of the Russians than Polish people I've spoken to over the past months.

Edit: par Ukrainians obviously

On the flipside, it's shocking how many younger Polish (mid 30's and under) actually are on Russias side in this - i've heard some quite shocking stuff.

 

[Malevolence]

I wonder where Crimea fits in there.

Crimea is part of Ukraine, so it will have to be cleansed of Russians first, be that by grinding them into fertiliser or them scurrying away.

 

[m@rty]

Poland alone seems eager to get involved, I've never seen more hatred of the Russians than Polish people I've spoken to over the past months.

Edit: par Ukrainians obviously

The Finns aren’t keen on them either!

 

[Roar87]

It’s the bit right before the question mark in case you missed it.

I think any instance of NATO troops firing on Russian troops will mean a state of war exists between Russia and NATO. The consequences of that could very quickly escalate into a nuclear war because really Russia only has tactical nuclear weapons as a realistic way of hitting back, they aren't just going to sit back while their troops get bombed into the stone age, they'll fire tactical nuclear weapons at every air base launching attacks. That's exactly what any Russian General would be forced to do because it is their only play. Then NATO would either respond in kind, or there'd be further use of nuclear weapons from the Russian side. We would be forced into a nuclear war likely culminating into a strategic exchange. Every General and Commander in NATO knows that, which is why we've only supplied weapons to Ukraine, and why there's been a gradual build up from small arms to tanks to longer range missiles.

 

[alec]

Poland alone seems eager to get involved, I've never seen more hatred of the Russians than Polish people I've spoken to over the past months.

The Finns aren’t keen on them either!

I can confirm baltic countries are the same

I'm sure politics that are based on hatred of a nationality are such a good way to go. Wonder if this has a name.