Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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alec said:
I'm glad this last page discussion went beyond "Putin evil" and actually discusses long term objective processes and interests of all parties.

Why I wanted to revisit this question:
Is it really that simples? Can you even agree what year has this invasion happened at least?
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Long term objectives?

Putin GTFO
Ukraine can decide if they want NATO and or EU

Unless you don't agree that countries should be able to choose their own fate of course.
 
alec said:
I'm glad this last page discussion went beyond "Putin evil" and actually discusses long term objective processes and interests of all parties.

Why I wanted to revisit this question:
Is it really that simples? Can you even agree what year has this invasion happened at least?
Click to expand...

Why does it even matter?

Whether it was back in 2014 or now, Russia invaded Ukraine, end of story.

ANY attempt to try to paint it another way, is just pathetic vatniks grasping at straws.
 
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Rroff said:
The way I see it Putin didn't set out for an invasion of Europe but if Ukraine had simply folded with little more than a whimper from the West then Moldova would have been next, large "defensive" Russian troop build ups along the border with Poland, then he'd start nibbling at south eastern Europe, probably giving places which are somewhat Russian favourable like Hungary a "join us or die" ultimatum as they splinter off into something more like Belarus. Eventually turning to the likes of Poland and the Baltics closer to the end of the decade.

(We've seen the evidence of sabotage, espionage, etc. to support that eventuality in those countries so definitely something they've an interest in).
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It's not a secret that Moscow views the break-up of the USSR as their land being stolen from them by the evil west and not free countries regaining their independence.

For all the talk of Poland as a military force the reality is that they are probably a decade away from being that, at least, and Russia knows that too.

This is probably the war they had hoped to fight IN Poland, just with a couple of million Ukrainian men for cannon fodder.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Long term objectives?
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objective as opposed to subjective
as in, something that is not a whim of an evil dictator
Peter75 said:
Some will say 2008, 2014 or 2022. Take your pick to fit your narrative.
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somebody mentioned Holodomor above so the range could probably be extended
Just saying nothing is black and white, there are underlying economic and historical reasons for stuff happening
 
alec said:
I'm glad this last page discussion went beyond "Putin evil" and actually discusses long term objective processes and interests of all parties.

Why I wanted to revisit this question:
Is it really that simples? Can you even agree what year has this invasion happened at least?
Click to expand...

The conflict started in 2014 when Russia annexed Crimea due to a pro-EU Ukrainian led government being elected, there was a civil war in Eastern Ukraine, one side being backed by Russia and one side backed by the (EU/US/NATO backed) Ukrainian government. Thousands of dead people and 8 years later, Russia illegally invades Ukraine since they dislike the war close to their border involving a lot of Russian speaking people who are fighting the Ukrainian government backed government by the EU/NATO/US. Russia obviously backed the Ukrainian separatists during the civil war with their own soldiers, people on here deny Ukrainian separatists even exist, however both sides killed a lot of civilians which is bad. This didn't come out of no where though as some preamble to Russia invading the rest of Europe, something that would be impossible given their poor military performance. To me it's essentially a regional dispute between 2 countries still attempting to resolve differences following the break up of the USSR in 1991. Russia is wrong for illegally invading Ukraine, Ukraine is a sovereign country and it's territory should be respected. NATO, the EU, and the US could have seriously considered the stability of Europe and the possibility of a war with Russia when they formed greater ties to Ukraine because the Russians made this very clear. However Ukraine is a sovereign country, so you have to weigh up their right to choose their own destiny with Russia's perhaps legitimate or illegitimate security concerns.
 
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alec said:
somebody mentioned Holodomor above so the range could probably be extended
Just saying nothing is black and white, there are underlying economic and historical reasons for stuff happening
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Yeah, I know and you are right, it isn't all black and white but what can we realistically do right now? We can argue about the causes all day long but it wont affect the situation on the ground. We have to take the situation as it is and try make the best choices we can and I firmly believe we are doing both the pragmatic and morally right thing and that is arming Ukraine so it can defend itself.
 
Roar87: "Russia illegally invades Ukraine since they dislike the war close to their border involving a lot of Russian speaking people who are fighting the Ukrainian government backed government by the EU/NATO/US."

Good grief, you slurped down that propaganda like it was your first meal in a few weeks.
 
alec said:
I'm glad this last page discussion went beyond "Putin evil" and actually discusses long term objective processes and interests of all parties.

Why I wanted to revisit this questions it really that simples? Can you even agree what year has this invasion happened at least?
Click to expand...

No Putin is evil.

It's simple.

Jog on vatnik.
 
Remind me to spit in the face of the next person who asks for money for the Red Cross :mad::mad:

www.pravda.com.ua

Red Cross of Belarus admits stealing children from Ukraine

The Belarusian Red Cross has confirmed that it is taking part in “exporting” Ukrainian children from the occupied territories to Belarus.
www.pravda.com.ua www.pravda.com.ua

en.interfax.com.ua

Ukrainian FM calls on ICC to issue arrest warrant for head of Red Cross of Belarus

Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine Dmytro Kuleba has called on the International Criminal Court (ICC) to issue an arrest warrant for the head of the Red Cross of Belarus Dmitry Shevtsov, who publicly confessed to the crime of deporting children from the occupied territories of Ukraine.
en.interfax.com.ua en.interfax.com.ua
 
Scougar said:
Roar87: "Russia illegally invades Ukraine since they dislike the war close to their border involving a lot of Russian speaking people who are fighting the Ukrainian government backed government by the EU/NATO/US."

Good grief, you slurped down that propaganda like it was your first meal in a few weeks.
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14,000 people died in Eastern Ukraine between 2014 and 2022, including thousands of Russian speaking civilians, killed by both the Ukrainian armed forces and Russian backed separatists. What propaganda do you think I've swallowed because this is simply easily verifiable facts reported in places such as The Guardian.

en.wikipedia.org

War in Donbas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

I don't consider this to be legitimate grounds to illegally invade Ukraine, I'm simply stating this occurred and Russia gave it as a stated reason.
 
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