Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Scougar said:
Roar87: "Russia illegally invades Ukraine since they dislike the war close to their border involving a lot of Russian speaking people who are fighting the Ukrainian government backed government by the EU/NATO/US."

Good grief, you slurped down that propaganda like it was your first meal in a few weeks.
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14,000 people died in Eastern Ukraine between 2014 and 2022, including thousands of Russian speaking civilians, killed by both the Ukrainian armed forces and Russian backed separatists. What propaganda do you think I've swallowed because this is simply easily verifiable facts reported in places such as The Guardian.

en.wikipedia.org

War in Donbas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

I don't consider this to be legitimate grounds to illegally invade Ukraine, I'm simply stating this occurred and Russia gave it as a stated reason.
 
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rumple9 said:
Just because he has a differing opinion to you doesn't make him an "idiot". The situation in Ukraine is very complicated and has been going on for over 10 plus years prior to the invasion. The US had a lot of involvement in the Maidan revolution and provoked matters.

What professor West says here mirrors what professor Mearsheimer has been saying for years
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It isn't a differing opinion. It's an objectively ridiculous idea/solution.
 
Clock is ticking for Putin now, the only way Russia can save face is him out of the way and they get to keep the Crimea, Ukraine won't like that but it's about the best deal on the table I can see.
 
That’s how I see it really, I cannot see Ukraine getting Crimea back. The Russians can blame it all on Putin and walk away. Whether it happens or not we shall see. Although I would really love Ukraine to get all their land back.
 
Roar87 said:
14,000 people died in Eastern Ukraine between 2014 and 2022, including thousands of Russian speaking civilians, killed by both the Ukrainian armed forces and Russian backed separatists. What propaganda do you think I've swallowed because this is simply easily verifiable facts reported in places such as The Guardian.

en.wikipedia.org

War in Donbas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

I don't consider this to be legitimate grounds to illegally invade Ukraine, I'm simply stating this occurred and Russia gave it as a stated reason.
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Not to mention the 298 people on the aircraft Russia, sorry, the heroic separatists fighting against the evil Ukranian government shot down.

People die in warzones, however Russia started the war, Russia backed the "seperatists" and sent in both military equipment and personal, and Russia ultimately is responsible for ALL the deaths.

If Ukraine hadn't fought back they would have been a part of "greater Russia" by now, and being looted wholesale by Putin's buddies.
 
Uther said:
I assume countries have a right to defend their nations ships if they are being attacked by a terrorist state...
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Well, if they’re trying on the vessel’s flag state for defence, then in the vast majority of cases that’d be the fomidable navies of the likes of Panama, Liberia and the Marshall Islands being deployed to the Black Sea. Flags of convenience eh?
 
Roar87 said:
I don't consider this to be legitimate grounds to illegally invade Ukraine, I'm simply stating this occurred and Russia gave it as a stated reason.
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You are parroting what they want you to hear without actually engaging your brain. They gave an excuse, not a real reason.

Here's some helpful questions: What happens if Ukraine becomes Russia? Who's border's will they be up against? Will they also "dislike" having nato on their border? What do you think will happen with Moldova for example since they already assisted with the land grab there?

You literally admit that you actually believe what Russia is saying. Remember when they said they weren't invading, did you also believe that?
 
Bazzards said:
That’s how I see it really, I cannot see Ukraine getting Crimea back. The Russians can blame it all on Putin and walk away. Whether it happens or not we shall see. Although I would really love Ukraine to get all their land back.
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They want Crimea for the dominance over the black sea. It's territorially significant. They will likely want to keep that even if they lose the East (In my computer desk generals opinion).
 
potatolord said:
That's old, from jan2023.
The 71% you quote is an average of 28 countries' responses- uk figure was 64% (p7)
71% figure is military involvement, not support

I skimmed the main report and, in the UK, 81% agreed with "my country must support sovereign countries when they are attacked..."

That illustrates the difference in views between involvement and support rather nicely.

Full report is here, with the figures
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Not to mention 79% in UK think "Doing nothing in Ukraine will encourage Russia to take further military action elsewhere in Europe and Asia"

@pallys
Some food for thought, eh?
 
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Scougar said:
As far as I remember, if there are no agreements in place for protection, then operating in a war zone with civilian vessels means no active insurance for those companies.

I doubt anyone but Turkey is going to step up.
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Can we honestly trust a country like turkey for heavens sake to act in a morally sound manner? I hope you are right
 
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Russian missile attacks on Ukraine's Black Sea coast have destroyed 60,000 tonnes of grain and damaged storage infrastructure, officials say.
Agriculture Minister Mykola Solskyi said a "considerable amount" of export infrastructure was out of operation.
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www.bbc.co.uk

Ukraine war: Russia strikes Ukraine grain after ending sea deal

Attacks on Black Sea ports destroy 60,000 tonnes of grain and damage infrastructure, officials say.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
Scougar said:
You are parroting what they want you to hear without actually engaging your brain. They gave an excuse, not a real reason.

Here's some helpful questions: What happens if Ukraine becomes Russia? Who's border's will they be up against? Will they also "dislike" having nato on their border? What do you think will happen with Moldova for example since they already assisted with the land grab there?

You literally admit that you actually believe what Russia is saying. Remember when they said they weren't invading, did you also believe that?
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I'm simply sticking to the actual facts and you're trying to make this about what I believe.

Russia has no capacity to threaten any NATO member state, beyond their nuclear weapons they're completely out matched by us in every way.
 
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Scougar said:
You literally admit that you actually believe what Russia is saying. Remember when they said they weren't invading, did you also believe that?
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No, to be fair to Roar if you look at his posts at the start of this he was saying it was pretty obvious they were looking to invade with building that much of their army up on the border. In fact, reading his posts it's like a different person at times than the one posting nowadays!

Though there are some typical Roar doozies, like how Putin was only taking advantage because of all the "weak Western leaders" that wouldn't stand up to him and that Bidens response would be completely zero, with no aid to Ukraine, and their best chance would have been having Trump in charge as he would have helped Ukraine out... :cry:
 
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