Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 3 Aug 2023 at 17:52

steve45 said:
I'm curious if they will be allowed to link up with the E3's that the flyover the western Black sea. however, they will be at a disadvantage for radar range and engagement range to the eastern front.

Officially or unofficially?

Yes their ranges (of various weapons) aren't as good as what they are up against. Although I believe an upgrade on what they do have now.

I will try to find the article I read, its some time ago now where an aviation expert went over what they would and wouldn't bring.

jigger · 3 Aug 2023 at 17:59

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
I read something which I based my comments on, that bombers would be unaffected as already at stand off range, they are only launching missiles not traditional bombing runs
Helos yes for sure thats the main benefit, dissuading them a bit more from frontline action.

F16s certainly are not the holy grail. But at least an improvement in capabilities

Not something I know too much about, but I do know those vintage of jets can get much closer to the bombers than a SAM and can engage targets from very long range.

Rroff · 3 Aug 2023 at 18:03

jigger said:
Not something I know too much about, but I do know those vintage of jets can get much closer to the bombers than a SAM and can engage targets from very long range.

The bombers are firing from positions ~500 miles from the frontlines in the east/south and ~300 miles from the north - well outside of ranges Ukraine can touch with F-16s without having full control of the air and backed up with modern AWACS, etc.

TBH with the current situation they might as just well rig up some Cessna Xs with advanced radar and the ability to spit Meteors :s (OK they don't have pylons or anything so not realistic).

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 3 Aug 2023 at 18:04

jigger said:
Not something I know too much about, but I do know those vintage of jets can get much closer to the bombers than a SAM and can engage targets from very long range.

I think the issue is the Russian "bombers" are basically functioning well within Russian airspace and out of range of the air to air missiles of the F16, certainly with its onboard radar
They arent bombing as such but acting as airborn missile platforms

Minstadave · 3 Aug 2023 at 18:07

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
I think the issue is the Russian "bombers" are basically functioning well within Russian airspace and out of range of the air to air missiles of the F16, certainly with its onboard radar
They arent bombing as such but acting as airborn missile platforms

Yeah the F16s aren't going to tackle the bomber threat as the standoff distance is far too great.

They would be a good deterrent against KA52s and for CAS roles with cheap JDAMS and JDAM ERs. They'd also allow more effective use of HARMs than is possible with societ aircraft.

They would be very vulnerable to AA though in contested airspace.

jigger · 3 Aug 2023 at 18:09

Rroff said:
The bombers are firing from positions ~500 miles from the frontlines in the east/south and ~300 miles from the north - well outside of ranges Ukraine can touch with F-16s without having full control of the air and backed up with modern AWACS, etc.

TBH with the current situation they might as just well rig up some Cessna Xs with advanced radar and the ability to spit Meteors :s (OK they don't have pylons or anything so not realistic).

Not really. 300-500 miles is nothing for this level jet.

Malevolence · 3 Aug 2023 at 18:10

jigger said:
Not really. 300-500 miles is nothing for this level jet.

Please tell me this is an act and that you're just acting dumb for internet shiggles.

jigger · 3 Aug 2023 at 18:11

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
I think the issue is the Russian "bombers" are basically functioning well within Russian airspace and out of range of the air to air missiles of the F16, certainly with its onboard radar
They arent bombing as such but acting as airborn missile platforms

I’m not sure about all, but the Russians had bombers stacked up over the Black Sea at one point.

Minstadave · 3 Aug 2023 at 18:11

jigger said:
Not really. 300-500 miles is nothing for this level jet.

There's no way an F16 is penetrating Russian airspace to try and down the bombers. That's not realistic.

Even operating with Ukranian airspace is going to be challenging due to the amount of AA in the region.

jigger · 3 Aug 2023 at 18:12

Malevolence said:
Please tell me this is an act and that you're just acting dumb for internet shiggles.

Sadly no to both.

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 3 Aug 2023 at 18:12

jigger said:
Not really. 300-500 miles is nothing for this level jet.

Its a bloody long way when inside hostile airspace where the enemy has air supremacy

Rroff · 3 Aug 2023 at 18:15

They might get away with it once given Russia's seeming incompetence but doubtful - for example Russia does detect the UK Rivet Joints that do missions over the Black Sea and scramble fighter escorts, etc. (and/or have patrols already up).

Efour · 3 Aug 2023 at 18:16

jigger said:
Not really. 300-500 miles is nothing for this level jet.

Even as a MW2 expert I know that's nonsense. Jokes aside. No.

jigger · 3 Aug 2023 at 18:17

Rroff said:
They might get away with it once given Russia's seeming incompetence but doubtful - for example Russia does detect the UK Rivet Joints that do missions over the Black Sea and scramble fighter escorts, etc. (and/or have patrols already up).

A very slow plane with the worst possible signature. Literally broadcasting live.

NickK · 3 Aug 2023 at 18:19

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
I think the issue is the Russian "bombers" are basically functioning well within Russian airspace and out of range of the air to air missiles of the F16, certainly with its onboard radar
They arent bombing as such but acting as airborn missile platforms

Just need a small firmware adjustment and those Russian aircraft carrying missiles will go Patti-boom-boom.

jigger · 3 Aug 2023 at 18:20

Efour said:
Even as a MW2 expert I know that's nonsense. Jokes aside. No.

What’s the sustainable and maximum speed of the F16? What’s it’s maximum BVR?

Freddie1980 · 3 Aug 2023 at 18:21

The last I heard on Russian bombers was Russia moved all of them to eastern Russia well out range of drone attacks. The only realistic way of taking them out from I can see is sending spec ops forces to destroy them while their on the ground.

Rroff · 3 Aug 2023 at 18:23

jigger said:
A very slow plane with the worst possible signature. Literally broadcasting live.

But they won't (likely) have uncontested use of the 100s of miles of airspace getting to within firing range, maybe an F-22 or F-35 might slip through but no way an F-16. And while Russia might be incompetent enough they might pull it off once, they aren't so incompetent Ukraine would be able to replay that card.

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 3 Aug 2023 at 18:24

jigger said:
What’s the sustainable and maximum speed of the F16? What’s it’s maximum BVR?

What about the Su57 which is what the F16 is going to need to beat getting in and out of Russian airspace, where the Russians will almost certainly have far more radar coverage

Efour · 3 Aug 2023 at 18:37

jigger said:
What’s the sustainable and maximum speed of the F16? What’s it’s maximum BVR?

You want me to Google it I dunno what's worse someone that literally knows nothing Vs someone pretending to know....
Any plane flying into Russian airspace is gonna have so many radars pointing missiles and guns at it that it will get shot down... Especially an old thing like an f16. Like others said. You might get away with it for a few hours until people wake up and do their jobs.
Don't you think the exact same for Russian aircraft flying deep into Ukraine airspace protected by modern missile defence?