Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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ianh said:
Thats pretty much their only "real" advantage in Ukraine, everything else (longer range radar than Ukrainian MiG-29 but shorter than their Su-27 etc) just isn't really usable in the very limited way Ukraine could attempt to leverage them, as they're missing so much of the rest of the NATO-style support infrastructure (AWAC's, Tankers, EW, Datalinks etc) that makes NATO led F-16's a far greater threat.
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Whilst that's not wrong it doesn't tell the whole story between the F-16 and Russia's latest and greatest jets. Yes it's true fighters like the SU-35 has a radar that can detect out to 400km (100km longer then the F-16's latest radar) it's usefulness is debatable as it lacks the sensativity to track targets until there at least within 200km of the fighter.

As with a lot of other Russian modern weapons the Su-35 is over-hyped and we in the west ha e been guilty of just accepting everything Russia has told us as if it were true without questioning the actual capabilities of such systems. It's only got away with it because it's been fielded against much older and out dated aircraft. Come next year I guess we will see how good it really is.

Another way to look at this is to think that Ukraine wouldn't go to all this trouble of taking it's best pilots out of action for 5 months, retraining ground crews and rebuilding runways just to field an aircraft that was outdone by it's enemy. Ukraine has been begging for these aircraft for long time, I'm sure the commanders there know what their getting and what it can do.
 
Roar87 said:
The F-117 was used against Yugoslavia, in both Iraq wars - and not just against Baghdad by the way, as well as against the Taliban in Afghanistan. Not that I was even considering it's operational history in the context of how a 40 year old stealth fighter might be used in 2023. So no, there was no implication that Baghdad was poorly defended. There's barely a documentary about the Gulf War that I haven't watched so I don't think that nor would I type it or imply it, thanks.]



Could you tell me what the black aircraft is from the 2003 invasion?

1280px-AirForce_over_Iraq.jpg
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I can't see a black aircraft in that pictute :confused:
 
ubersonic said:
Put it this way, in Afghanistan it's effectiveness was severely hampered by the fact that the Taliban learnt to tell when it was coming due to the coalition troops it was coming to help taking cover from it xD

If anyone's interested there's a bunch of really good videos on YouTube these days highlighting how poor the combat performance of the A-10 has really been and how it's never lived up to the hype, I.E this one:




Sorry to break it to you but the fact the emperor has no clothes on has been known for some time now, see above.
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Sorry but I disagree, the performance of the A10 is excellent.

The A10, A10-ing things into next week.
 
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Now Vladolf has admitted to declaring war on Ukraine and is seeking to destroy a peace perusing democracy, should Russian territory become fair game?
 
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Everywhere you read people say the Russians have been hopeless but they are still in Ukraine and still holding most of the ground they gained on the east, seems to be a lot of hype on how bad they are supposed to be yet results do not seem to match that hype.
 
Drukk said:
Everywhere you read people say the Russians have been hopeless but they are still in Ukraine and still holding most of the ground they gained on the east, seems to be a lot of hype on how bad they are supposed to be yet results do not seem to match that hype.
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Yea i mean a country like Russia, who apparently had the 2nd best army in the world, is doing great with the ability to only just hold onto minimal gains in a country who basically had an army who wasn't really rated pre war.


Hopefully in the next phase of the war Ukraine is going to start sweeping from the west to east, cutting off Crimea and blowing up the bridge.
 
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Firestar_3x said:
Yea i mean a country like Russia, who apparently had the 2nd best army in the world, is doing great with the ability to only just hold onto minimal gains in a country who basically had an army who wasn't really rated pre war.
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But its not that now is it, they have billions coming in from Europe and the US yet they still can't dislodge the Russians. I'm just saying if they were that bad more gains would have been made.
 
Drukk said:
But its not that now is it, they have billions coming in from Europe and the US yet they still can't dislodge the Russians. I'm just saying if they were that bad more gains would have been made.
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That's exactly how it was pre war, Ukraine didn't even think an invasion was coming despite the US and UK telling them otherwise. Thats why Russia made gains in the opening stages, Ukraine is finding it hard to gain losses back quickly because its easier to defend than attack and Russia has spent time digging in.
 
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Freddie1980 said:
Another way to look at this is to think that Ukraine wouldn't go to all this trouble of taking it's best pilots out of action for 5 months, retraining ground crews and rebuilding runways just to field an aircraft that was outdone by it's enemy. Ukraine has been begging for these aircraft for long time, I'm sure the commanders there know what their getting and what it can do.
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I absolutely agree, and what the Ukrainian commanders won't be doing is asking their limited number of F-16's to go inside Russia and kill Su-35's and bombers to gain Air Supremacy as they know Ukraine lacks the necessary support to be able to do that (I realise that isn't what you're suggesting BTW, its just what the general tone in here is).

So outside of edge cases of self defence (if for example Russia sorties large numbers of fighters in an attempt to wipe the smaller fleet of F-16's out) the F-16's would primarily be used for hit'n'run style Air to Ground attacks and only rarely for limited, short duration tactical air superiority. That is why my post was agreeing with Bug-One who was also pointing out that A/G will be the primary use of F-16's, not because of the lack of an F-16's individual "quality" but because of the lack of necessary support Ukraine has to enable their F-16's to gain Air Supremacy.
 
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I think the F16s will be primarily used to even the odds in a stand off air superiority role and a more limited anti radar role. Their increased range BVR capabilities will help push the Russian air superiority fighters and SAM cover out to longer range for self preservation. This in turn will give Russian CAS assets reduced cover and conversely the Ukrainian CAS assets can have a bit more cover.

Wasting F16s in a ground attack role or potential suicide bombing runs into Russian controlled airspace would be detrimental.
 
Drukk said:
Everywhere you read people say the Russians have been hopeless but they are still in Ukraine and still holding most of the ground they gained on the east, seems to be a lot of hype on how bad they are supposed to be yet results do not seem to match that hype.
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Russia has had a long time (since 2014 in eastern Ukraine) to prepare defences and Ukraine aren't interested in throwing lives and equipment away try to zerg them. As one example, the very densely populated minefields are a big problem and not easy to breach unless you can send sappers and clearing equipment in safely - which means air superiority and not being hit by artillery, snipers etc.

A lot of the hype is armchair generals who think its CoD and are too dumb or arrogant to realise they actually know naff all. Them being amplified by twitterati and short attention span media knobbers looking for clicks and views doesn't help. The problem with real experts is they have a nasty habit of telling you the truth, regardless of what you want to hear and deal with. If Ukraine lose this, it will be because the west was too self-absorbed to deal with the problem and not facing up to the fact that if Russia wins this one, places even nearer Western Europe are next.

Russia is a playground bully and the only way to deal with them is beat the snot out of them so badly and visibly that they never the ability or will to try again.
 
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