Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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ianh said:
The Washington Post running another story on ex-Special Operations elements within Ukraine being the ones to organise and carry out the bombing of the Nord Stream pipelines, according to various "officials with Ukraine and elsewhere in Europe" -

Again, there's no absolute proof yet and as such the story around this event is still not confirmed one way of another. However, the use of "specific wording" by the WaPo - i.e. people knowledgeable about the details of the covert operation - is generally (but not always) reserved only for times when a US 3 letter agency needs to say something "off record" and thats the part that intrigues me the most.

There also seem to be a noticeable shift in the reporting of the war generally (I think) into a more negative tone that held previously, and most of it I think seems to stem from the perceived lack of spectacular success of Ukraine's spring/summer offensive, compared to many peoples vastly over-hyped expectations, well at least thats what I think is happening.
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Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com www.reddit.com

Isabelle Khurshudyan, who was a foreign correspondent in Moscow since 2014, wrote an article for the Washington Post framing that Ukraine was behind the Nord stream pipeline bombing without using any information from credible sources. Why? Now that’s an interesting question. We took a look at the article and came to these conclusions. The key sources of information for this article were:
  • People familiar with the planning
  • Officials in Ukraine and elsewhere
  • People familiar with Chervinsky’s role
  • Discord
  • Putin
  • Russian authorities
  • TASS
According to unnamed officials in Ukraine and elsewhere, Roman Chervinsky, a senior Ukrainian military officer blew up the Nord Stream. These are direct quotes from the article.
  • “People familiar with his role”
  • "People familiar with his assignments"
  • "People familiar with how the operation was carried out"
Named sources that were included in the article are:
  • Russian officials
  • TASS news (A russian state owned news agency)
  • And putin himself
She did ask Zelenskyy who denied it. Zaluzhny, who said it was Russian propaganda. Now what about Chervinsky? Did he say he did it? No he denied any role in the sabotage of the pipelines.
“All speculations about my involvement in the attack on Nord Stream are being spread by Russian propaganda without any basis"
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So let’s make some conclusions. People who could’ve been involved (Zaluzhny, Zelenskyy, Chervinsky) denied everything. Putin, russian sources, TASS, guy on Discord confirmed everything.
An investigation by German NTV checking the original Spiegel article on this found glaring inconsistencies like the "Ukrainian" owner of the agency that hired the boat being a Russian supporter from Crimea, and that Spiegel never acknowledged or responded to these inconsistencies, that would crumble their whole chain of reasoning. The other allegation being from Seymour Hersh, who may be going senile as just 3 days ago said "The russians have yet to put their main forces in"
Russian misinformation activity has been recently kicking up. The key goal of russian propaganda is to create confusion. To force you to believe nothing or to believe everything at the same time. You read in one article “Ukraine didn’t do it” and then in another one “Ukraine did it”. You ask yourself “what’s wrong with this Ukraine?” You don’t want to hear about Ukraine anymore. Too confusing. You start avoiding the subject.
And that was their aim all along.
You will probably see the article being heavily pushed by pro russians elsewhere, feel free to read it and make your own assumptions. We wont however, link it here.
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Sounds pretty sus.
 
Orangeade said:
Yet when it was suggested earlier in the thread that the Russians had no incentive to do so people were accused of lots of different things....

But it's fine it'll be gone next news cycle and we can go back to glorifying people dying in ever more exotic ways.

However, if we head to a recession in H1 2024 then I suspect the appetite for a grinding war or attrition is going to diminish even more.

And if it turns out that was the plan all along to just grind a bunch of slavs for the US until no longer convenient, will people admit maybe they were duped a bit?
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In what world is it someone’s fault for defending themselves in a war they didn’t start

It’s the most toxic narrative possible.

The only reason it exists is because it’s proponents hope it will bail Putin out of an existential mistake
 
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Stretch said:
In what world is it someone’s fault for defending themselves in a war they didn’t start

It’s the most toxic narrative possible.

The only reason it exists is because it’s proponents hope it will bail Putin out of an existential mistake
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Blah blah blah. Very easy to live in a black and white world isn't it. Everything that straightforward in your world?

Thankfully (or hopefully) people like you don't hold responsibility of office or people under care.
 
Yeah imagine that, Imagine people who would want to defend there own country if invaded holding office. Defending against an invader is one of the most straightforward things a country can decide, its pretty black and white. If your getting invaded you either let them walk over your entire country or you defend it.

In your clown world you would appease putin and give up Ukraine because HERMAGURDWENEEDTOSAVELIVES.

Like I said in previous posts in this thread, all you PUTINbots love to frame Ukrainians defence of their country as if they are at fault for losing lives or the wests fault that Ukrainian soldiers are dying.

Its never Russias fault that people are dying no no no, oh nooo you can't say that. You are all so transparent.
 
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Orangeade said:
Blah blah blah. Very easy to live in a black and white world isn't it. Everything that straightforward in your world?

Thankfully (or hopefully) people like you don't hold responsibility of office or people under care.
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You seem to be in complete denial about how indefensible your viewpoint is.

It’s absurd.
 
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Orangeade said:
Really? I'm quite happy to defend it, seems others are happy to just cry out in shrill voices about bots.
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Great. Let’s hear it.

1. What is your rational for thinking Ukraine should just give up and let Russia take what it wants.

2. Why doesn't the blame for all of this (death and destruction) not lay firmly at the feet of Russia?

All wars have always been a trade off between life and liberty and this war is no different. Ukraine have achieved an awful lot since the war started to make outcomes more favourable for them in the long term when compared with not resisting.

They still have a government, 80% of their country and their identity and culture fully intact.

And they still have the prospect of getting everything they’ve lost back.

All of this would be gone if they listened to you.

3. Why isn't that better than giving up?
 
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Bug One said:
There's no point arguing with the trolls. Their whole purpose for being here is to try to push whatever propaganda they've been tasked with. Just block them and ignore.
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The reason is i don't believe they have been tasked with spreading propaganda. I just think they have fallen for it. One way or another that needs addressing.

You know when you meet a plasterer down your local pub who tries (badly) to explain why Russia needs a buffer zone and that somehow justifies them killing 100,000s of people something has gone seriously wrong with this world.
 
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There are definitely some useful idiots around, but these discussions are how these bots work.

They want you to believe they're just average guys who've formed these opinions, and make you think that perhaps they could be right. If they admitted who they worked for and what their agenda was, it wouldn't work as effectively.
 
Bug One said:
There's no point arguing with the trolls. Their whole purpose for being here is to try to push whatever propaganda they've been tasked with. Just block them and ignore.
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I have but the problem is other users keep quoting the trolls and force me to read the crap. I wish blocking trolls would also block posts that quote the trolls, I'd rather just not see any posts related to Roar even if it's others just calling him an idiot or pointing about all his mistakes, I'd rather just not see any of it. I know i could use a browser extension to block pages with roar on it but I'd rather not block non troll related posts as well as a side effect , otherwise half the pages on this thread, maybe more than half, I won't be able to view
 
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Bug One said:
There are definitely some useful idiots around, but these discussions are how these bots work.
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Ah, using the old "everyone who disagrees with me is a Bot" playbook I see, how dull and boring.

Gl4wjOe.jpg
 
Bug One said:
There are definitely some useful idiots around, but these discussions are how these bots work.

They want you to believe they're just average guys who've formed these opinions, and make you think that perhaps they could be right. If they admitted who they worked for and what their agenda was, it wouldn't work as effectively.
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I don't think roar is a bot, or orangeade.

I'd class one if them as a sceptic. I quite like challenge, so that's no problem

The other seems to be pro-russian. He probably is just an average guy. I don't why he takes that position, but there you go.

Looking for bot conspiracies to explain the obvious is lame: they're just people you disagree with.
 
Russian TV pundit starts rationalising why Ukrainians view their future in Europe as better than a future with Russia, and the host has to quickly to shut him down and tell him to stop saying on TV that living conditions in Russia is worse than Eastern Europe but the pundit doesn't stop and reiterates that Russia has nothing to offer Ukrainians and the host and other pundits start panicking and tell him to shut up


 
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potatolord said:
Looking for bot conspiracies to explain the obvious is lame: they're just people you disagree with.
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May as well be bots as they just post Russian propaganda and pretend it's truth, arguably the same things bots do.

People have constantly pointed out how wrong Roar is and yet nothing changes, so I admire their perseverance, but I wonder why they bother trying.
 
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