Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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peterwalkley said:
35k deployed internally in Russia is 35K fewer in Ukraine. I wonder how many partisans they're chasing, but my guess is less than a thousand so that's a very appealing ratio of of manpower tied up chasing their tails.
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Probably just the ones around his nephews house’s. Cue Benny Hill music.
 
Sankari said:
The context is broader than that, but even if it hadn't been, it still doesn't change the meaning and intent of Yeltsin's demand. He wants Europe, and his argument is that Russia should be allowed to have Europe, because she is (a) European, and (b) powerful enough to protect the continent from future threats.

Yeltsin is so convinced this is a reasonable position that he tells Clinton the US can have all the other states, and protect them. He considers this a legitimate and entirely reasonable proposal.



Yeltsin also admits that Russia wants Asia, on the grounds that 'Russia is half European and half Asian.' He sees Russia's acquisition of Europe and Asia as inevitable, telling Clinton 'Eventually we will have to agree on all of this.'

Note that Clinton says 'I don't think the Europeans would like this very much.' Does he mean the Europeans would not like Russia providing security for them with a missile shield? Of course not, that wouldn't make any sense.

He means the Europeans would not like being absorbed into Russia's sphere of influence. They know what happened to the Soviet vassal states, and they don't want a return to those years.

There is no way to read the words 'Just give Europe to Russia' and 'I will take Europe' as 'I just want a missile defence system, it's no big deal.' The same applies to his intentions for Asia. Clinton understands this perfectly well, as his reply shows.

The broader context of the discussion is Yeltsin's concerns about foreign intervention in his war on Chechnya, which he sees as a uniquely European issue that non-Europeans should stay out of. This is such a critical issue for Yeltsin that he raises it immediately at the start of their meeting:



This is how the National Security Archive describes the entire exchange:



So it's not difficult to understand why this memo was classified as 'Secret', because its contents is politically explosive. You can't hand wave this and pretend Yeltsin meant something entirely different.
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Russia has always been imperialistic, even when it was the USSR. Nothing has changed and it still wants its empire back.
 
What a gift to the Russians. Vladolf starts a losing war and brings back the Stasi.

Welcome to 1950 in 2024 and another 12 years of Putin to come, you lucky Russians. Who’d have thought it possible.
 
Mr Badger said:
Of course you are entitled to your opinion. But it seems unlikely that your connection with Russian leaders is in the same league as Roar87...
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The Russian president says, "You can take all the other states and provide security to them. I will take Europe and provide them security."
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I assume he was speaking about providing security to Europe in the context of a missile defense system working against rogue states and terrorists since that's what they were discussing. There is also just a chance Yeltsin was drunk and misspoke, since he was always drunk. People forget that Russia voluntarily pulled it's troops out of East Germany and allowed reunification, which was prior to the collapse of the USSR. To think in 1999 Russia had aspirations to conquer Europe is basically pretty silly, mindlessly reposting fake Ukrainian propaganda seems to just be a theme of this thread though.
 
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Roar87 said:
I assume he was speaking about providing security to Europe in the context of a missile defense system working against rogue states and terrorists since that's what they were discussing. There is also just a chance Yeltsin was drunk and misspoke, since he was always drunk. People forget that Russia voluntarily pulled it's troops out of East Germany and allowed reunification, which was prior to the collapse of the USSR. To think in 1999 Russia had aspirations to conquer Europe is pretty basically silly, mindlessly reposting fake Ukrainian propaganda seems to just be a theme of this thread though.
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Yeah, security from Zee Germans…

Stellung! Schnell, schnell! der fette, betrunkene Russe ist im schiebstand! Laden sie den strudel in die kanonen, bevor er kalt wird!
 
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Roar87 said:
I assume he was speaking about providing security to Europe in the context of a missile defense system working against rogue states and terrorists since that's what they were discussing. There is also just a chance Yeltsin was drunk and misspoke, since he was always drunk. People forget that Russia voluntarily pulled it's troops out of East Germany and allowed reunification, which was prior to the collapse of the USSR. To think in 1999 Russia had aspirations to conquer Europe is basically pretty silly, mindlessly reposting fake Ukrainian propaganda seems to just be a theme of this thread though.
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You try too hard.
 
Roar87 said:
I assume he was speaking about providing security to Europe in the context of a missile defense system working against rogue states and terrorists (Russia) since that's what they were discussing. There is also just a chance Yeltsin was drunk and misspoke, since he was always drunk. People forget that Russia voluntarily pulled it's troops out of East Germany and allowed reunification, which was prior to the collapse of the USSR. To think in 1999 Russia had aspirations to conquer Europe is basically pretty silly, mindlessly reposting fake Ukrainian propaganda seems to just be a theme of this thread though.
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Russia voluntarily pulled out did it. My recollection as I wasn't 2 years old at the time was the USSR was slowly collapsing and Russia had far too many worries at home as the writing was on the wall and they knew they couldn't do anything to stop the Berlin Wall coming down. You make it sound like Russia was a good actor in this, they've never been that. In 1939 they were partners with Hitler and if Hitler had stuck to the deal they would have remained partners with the Nazis. The sooner people realise we have nothing in common with Russia the batter. They are no better than radical Islam.
 
peterwalkley said:
35k deployed internally in Russia is 35K fewer in Ukraine. I wonder how many partisans they're chasing, but my guess is less than a thousand so that's a very appealing ratio of of manpower tied up chasing their tails.
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35k but not just deployed to what we think of as Russia, they say they will be deployed through what they consider Russia so they includes the Ukranian occupied territories
 
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Colonel_Klinck said:
Russia has always been imperialistic, even when it was the USSR. Nothing has changed and it still wants its empire back.
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Imagine if the Greeks, Romans and Turks all started invading their neighbours on the basis that they used to be a mighty imperial empire and those lands therefore belong to them. Thats what Russia is doing in 2024
 
Roar87 said:
I assume he was speaking about providing security to Europe in the context of a missile defense system working against rogue states and terrorists since that's what they were discussing. There is also just a chance Yeltsin was drunk and misspoke, since he was always drunk. People forget that Russia voluntarily pulled it's troops out of East Germany and allowed reunification, which was prior to the collapse of the USSR. To think in 1999 Russia had aspirations to conquer Europe is basically pretty silly, mindlessly reposting fake Ukrainian propaganda seems to just be a theme of this thread though.
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This is the most deranged cope I have seen in years. You are completely misrepresenting what was said. No sane historian or political analyst would entertain this nonsense for half a second. The transcript is clear: it means exactly what it says, as I have explained. The summary by the NSA comfirms this. I defy you to find any serious political scholar who claims otherwise.
 
Grim5 said:
Imagine if the Greeks, Romans and Turks all started invading their neighbours on the basis that they used to be a mighty imperial empire and those lands therefore belong to them. Thats what Russia is doing in 2024
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...and don't forget the Persians. They would all turn up in a field in Macedonia saying that's mine.

End of off topic.
 
IGBT said:
Can’t Ukraine start doing long range missiles, AA defence system, ammunition’s, etc?
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They could but making a plant like tht is an easy target. Easier to make drones as the fabrication can easily be wide spread. Making shells requires heavy machinary.

Putin is attempting to turn the GRU/FSB into Russia’a largest employer.. would take much for that FSB leadership to bunk off putin and his cohorts as they get older and more insecure gis position becomes more unstable. Corruption breeds benefit of self over the country, a natural limit to the size-stability of the state.
 
peterwalkley said:
I wonder how many partisans they're chasing, but my guess is less than a thousand
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I guess it can be harder to stop lone wolfs but I think many inside Russia will be. May be more organised activity in occupied Ukraine. Last week an SU-34m inside Russia was destroyed by fire - after a few days they arrested one 16 year old boy, who they claim jumped a fence into an airfield and set the plane on fire
 
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Putin invading another country. The west start promising help ect. Then over time the interest wanes. The politicians know this is a war we can't win. The money and arms are running out. Putins gamble looks like it's working our for him. We have clearly learned nothing from the 1930s when we watched Hitler rearming yet did nothing. Watch this space
 
Yep get a Hitler analogy in there. Guaranteed win.
Putin's gamble was to win in a week.
This is Putin's double down, raise raise raise raise raise raise raise with an all in at some point in the future.
He's never going to back down, he dies or Ukraine loses whichever comes first.
 
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vectisitch said:
Putin invading another country. The west start promising help ect. Then over time the interest wanes. The politicians know this is a war we can't win. The money and arms are running out. Putins gamble looks like it's working our for him. We have clearly learned nothing from the 1930s when we watched Hitler rearming yet did nothing. Watch this space
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Well you heard it, straight from the Internet Bureau.

He may be all in. However that means he has to deliver and that requires all of Russia to be on the same page.

I’m not entirely sure if Russia wouldn’t simply nuke one of it’a allies can claim it was NATO. Probably North Korea.

The key is finding the simplest point that delay the plan..

Blink.

I agree that the EU should arm up. There’s only so many tank corpses you can leave in one area before it becomes impossible to pass or clear.
 
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