Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Haggisman said:
Anyone with a shred of human decency?

By all means drive them out, kill them if necessary, but you lose any right to claim the moral high ground when you deem it acceptable to inflict unnecessary torture and suffering. :rolleyes:
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With all due respect he's going to suffer no matter what he does and we don't have all the context. Even if he managed to get out immediate danger area there's a good change he'll get shot by his own side, crawl over the Ukrainian frontline he will get shot by his own side, if he's picked up and sent to a hospital you think the Russian doctors and nurses will trreat him any better? They'll patch him up so he can at least walk and send back to frontline.

BTW Ukrainian could have been assaulting that position, if he was still alive he could have got a gun and started shooting and someone could have got killed. His fate was sealed the moment he stepped foot in someone else's country intent on doing harm.
 
Haggisman said:
If someone broke into my house and threatened me & my family, I would do what it took to protect them, even if that involved killing the intruder, however I wouldn't revel in the violence like some people in here seem to, and I certainly wouldn't start to torture and maim them after they were already incapacitated. :confused:
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How do you deem it torture? Unless he was obviously surrendering, i imagine it is pretty shrewd to be absolutely sure your enemy is dead when fighting a war.
 
Haggisman said:
You're happy to stoop to their level because "they started it"? Maybe it's just me, but I think we should strive to do better.
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No I'm saying that it's pointless trying to call attention to just one side of the coin, when both sides are doing the same (or worse) than the example given.

I don't like watching the drone drop footage because it's a reminder of how fickle life can be, and how horrific war is in general, yet Efour seems to watch these types of videos pretty often based on his posting history here that mentions them.

Then comes here to talk about how bad they are, as if that wasn't already obvious.
 
Jono8 said:
How do you deem it torture? Unless he was obviously surrendering, i imagine it is pretty shrewd to be absolutely sure your enemy is dead when fighting a war.
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I don't necessarily know in this particular instance. I'm probably not conveying my point very well to be honest. There's a difference between killing an enemy combatant because it is necessary, and enjoying doing so and seeking to inflict as much pain and suffering as possible in the process. The former I have no issue with. The latter not so much. Trying to justify it with "they started it"/"they're doing it too"/"they're just orcs/Russians"/insert reason here, is disingenuous at best, dangerous at worst.
 
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Efour said:
Just saw "another" unedited twitter clip of a drone operator dropping grenades on a wounded russian.

4 grenade drops each one very well placed, through obvious experience and skill, but 4 all on the same guy.... By the end his legs are swiss cheese, one "to the face" which makes fine viewing and a couple more to the general "body"

Yes the russians are the enemy. No they probably will do the same, yes it's war but... Yes I say this once a month......

This **** is torture. Inhuman, you wouldn't do this to a dog. If this is the future then I need to start building up some hatred but after 40+ years of trying my best to be civil I'm not going to make the grade as a soldier.
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It’s very hard to know what’s right in this situation. And the law is grey since it predates the use of drones with remote cameras.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s an awful thing to do. However, the Ukrainians want these people to leave. One of the best strategies is to make this happen is to make the Russian soldiers fearful to the point they mutiny. I would image hearing or seeing your comrades having grenades dropped on them is very effective in this respect.

I don’t agree with these videos being posted online, but I also don’t necessarily agree that what the Ukrainians are doing is morally wrong.

They were attacked and they are at a disadvantage when it comes to manpower. They can and should use every legal means to address that disadvantage.
 
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Well it's happening in both sides and will be a part of all future conflict. Both sides are suffering....

I just think it's heavily ****** up that a kid can watch his fathers last hour alive on YouTube while Somone slowly, Inefficiently kills him with grenades. All to a cool dubstep tune.

Just needs some CoD hit markers and sound effects.

Remember how computer games desensitise kids to violence. :p
Well if this isn't evident now ......
Lol didn't they say call of duty was a recruitment tool once upon a time.
 
I think we are seeing peoples views on "the whites of their eyes" test. Here.
If you can see the whites of their eyes you can specifically target them, as opposed to generally target them.

Specifically targeting is a different thing to general. A B52 flying over, or a 155mm will almost certainly be generally targeting, but a drone will be specifically.
As said the conventions aren't really up to date here.

Plus ofc if a drone was hovering over you would your first thought not to be "play dead" ?
How would a drone operator be able to test that? They cant exactly give the potential dead enemy a poke with their foot can they ;)
 
Drop a grenade :p

It surprises me how stealthy these things appear to be.... I always thought they were buzzy annoyances.

I looked at getting a drone here but because I live in a military area there's very strict rules and restrictions on their use.
 
We live in an age where everything gets added to social media, good or bad, and people will glorify anything they see fit.

I don't personally take pleasure in watching people get blown up with grenades, but I understand why Ukraine does it, because it's extremely effective, and the risk is very one-sided, after all a cheap drone can be replaced, the operator can't, nor can the soldier who dies to the drone grenades.

It's a messed up world we live in, and footage backed by dubstep music is part of it, but as I said, why put yourself through watching the footage? It's not exactly lunchtime viewing is it?
 
Efour said:
Drop a grenade :p

It surprises me how stealthy these things appear to be.... I always thought they were buzzy annoyances.

I looked at getting a drone here but because I live in a military area there's very strict rules and restrictions on their use.
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They are stealthy and they are not.
Its all going to be based on background noise, in a vehicle etc you sometimes see people recognise just as its about to hit.

OFC mainly the area is going to be noisy so a drone will often be far quieter than other noises.
But some times for sure you can see troops on the ground look specifically at drones (and often try to shoot them)
 
I'll stress for those brining up "my mental wellbeing" :p

I'm honestly really not bothered, the amount of combat footage I've watched from a young age is probably "disturbing" if a trained psychiatrist was to diagnose me.

I'm more interested in creating discussion. It Makes the thread more interesting than an echo chamber/twitter feed thread.

Drone warfare is a fascinating/ disturbing new tool that has come to the forefront. Definitely a whites of their eyes phenomenon.
 
Haggisman said:
I've not said anything about the morality of war. I'm not at all claiming that Putin isn't the ultimate cause of all the pain and suffering, despite how you may try to twist my words to suit your own agenda.

I'm merely pointing out that taking glee in the inflicting of suffering on someone just because they're your enemy makes you no better than they are. Dehumanising the enemy is the oldest propaganda trick in the book and it seems like you've fallen for it hook, line and sinker.



You're happy to stoop to their level because "they started it"? Maybe it's just me, but I think we should strive to do better.

If someone broke into my house and threatened me & my family, I would do what it took to protect them, even if that involved killing the intruder, however I wouldn't revel in the violence like some people in here seem to, and I certainly wouldn't start to torture and maim them after they were already incapacitated. :confused:
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Dehumanising them?

They invaded , killed and raped their way across Ukraine.

They dehumanised themselves.

Would you apply your logic to the nazis, they were just normal people with a fetish of sorts.
 
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Efour said:
Drone warfare is a fascinating/ disturbing new tool that has come to the forefront. Definitely a whites of their eyes phenomenon.
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It's only different in that the operator can see the immediate result.

The end result is really no different to an artillery strike or sustained bombing.

Both will be repeatedly blowing bits off people dead or alive. It's just now, the attacker gets to watch it in real time.
 
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Efour said:
Drop a grenade :p

It surprises me how stealthy these things appear to be.... I always thought they were buzzy annoyances.

I looked at getting a drone here but because I live in a military area there's very strict rules and restrictions on their use.
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The police use really large ones at football matches, you can hear them a mile away when lowish.
 
alchal said:
Dehumanising them?

They invaded , killed and raped their way across Ukraine.

They dehumanised themselves.

Would you apply your logic to the nazis, they were just normal people with a fetish of sorts.
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Depends if you differentiate between Nazis and Wehrmacht.
Just for discussion.. I assume half these conscripts are doing it for money and a better life than sitting unemployed in some **** hole town.
Conscripts I guess no choice, still an adventure to most dumbasses .
 
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Efour said:
I'm more interested in creating discussion. It Makes the thread more interesting than an echo chamber/twitter feed thread.
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What is there to discuss?

Ukraine is using drones to drop grenades on invaders, sometimes they drop more grenades than is strictly necessary, not sure what we can get out of any discussion on this.

I don't revel in this but I fully support Ukraine's right to defend themselves and remove invaders with force, including drone usage.
 
Efour said:
Depends if you differentiate between Nazis and Wehrmacht.
Just for discussion.. I assume half these conscripts are doing it for money and a better life than sitting unemployed in some **** hole town.
Conscripts I guess no choice, still an adventure to most dumbasses .
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Possibly they are, possibly also looting,raping and killing whilst on adventure as well.

Unfortunately for them they invaded...face the consequences.
 
alchal said:
Dehumanising them?

They invaded , killed and raped their way across Ukraine.

They dehumanised themselves.

Would you apply your logic to the nazis, they were just normal people with a fetish of sorts.
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Except most of them weren't. Most of them were just normal guys like you and me dragged into a war they didn't want, caused by a tyrant who conveniently managed to keep himself far from the frontlines for most of it.

Of course the normal ones who try to keep their heads down and stay out of the way don't make the news stories.

Yes there are always going to be utter scum who use the situation to live out their fetishes, yes, there are almost certainly a disproportionate number in the Russian forces, but it's a very dangerous route to go down to tar everyone with the same brush. There's always going to be collateral in any conflict, but it should be seen as an unfortunate necessary evil rather than something to be celebrated.

Besides, shouldn't we be better than that? Your behaviour defines who you are, not who you're doing it to. If you act like vermin then you are vermin regardless of whether the person you are doing it to is also vermin.
 
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