Suspended
But you have to remove them from their habitat entirely, and spend time domesticating them. It can't be done in their natural environment, and it can't be done with capitalism alone.
Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
- Thread starter areksnumbr1sxylady
- Start date
- Status
But you have to remove them from their habitat entirely, and spend time domesticating them. It can't be done in their natural environment, and it can't be done with capitalism alone.
Do you think most men who are now fighting on the front lines started out with any more training than you have now?
It's amazing that so many people on this forum have considered themselves completely incapable of being a soldier.
Regardless, my comment was aimed at people who are encouraging an escalation to the conflict which will result in tens or hundreds of thousands of deaths, while they themselves remain safe at home. I find that quite irksome because war is horrible and they are encouraging it from the safety of their homes.
Last edited:
Suspended
No. My point is that the kind of escalation I'm recommending—NATO involvement—would prevent tens or hundreds of thousands of deaths, because Russia would not dare to attack a NATO force.
Oh look, it's the old trick of pretending to care about casualties after pages of posting thinly veiled support for the country responsible for most of the casualties. Nice!
I am not 'encouraging war', I am encouraging a military deterrent with the aim of ending a war. I am encouraging the defence of a nation illegally invaded by another nation.
If you actually cared about deaths, you'd be spamming this thread with demands for Russia to leave Ukraine, end the war, return all the Ukranian children they've stolen, and pay reparations—all of which is entirely within Putin's power to do. But you've never done that. Not even once.
From this I can only conclude that you don't want this war to end until Putin has won.
Last edited:
Russia, Iran and North Korea are able to produced more munitions, in a shorter order than NATO and the rest of the modern world including the US. Collectively these nations have the ability to wage war on Europeans, destabilise Africa and operate a large scale terror campaign in the Middle East and much of the Arab world.
This inability to supply small arms and artillery munitions to Ukraine is shameful. I’d argue that for every shell the Russians and Co fire at Ukraine, NATO should be able to supply Ukraine the capability to fire back three precision guided shells. Looking at the economic figures, each shell gold plated and chocolate coated no less.
Last edited:
News flash, Russia have lost 500,000k and aren’t 5% into Putin’s mess.
Side note, what is this amazing number of people that declare themselves unfit to be soldiers?
So you've weighed up Vladimir Putin and come to the conclusion that in the face of a large military build up of NATO forces in Ukraine that he would back down? I think he'd prepare his population for an impending nuclear exchange because given the option of conceding territory to NATO and using nuclear weapons, he would always choose the latter. There's a reason we haven't gone down this route, there's a reason we've slowly upped the types of weapons we've been willing to provide, serious military planners advised by high level intelligence understand the risks, perhaps you should "trust the experts" on this.
Oh look, it's the old trick of pretending to care about casualties after pages of posting thinly veiled support for the country responsible for most of the casualties. Nice!
I am not 'encouraging war', I am encouraging a military deterrent with the aim of ending a war. I am encouraging the defence of a nation illegally invaded by another nation.
If you actually cared about deaths, you'd be spamming this thread with demands for Russia to leave Ukraine, end the war, return all the Ukranian children they've stolen, and pay reparations—all of which is entirely within Putin's power to do. But you've never done that. Not even once.
Not a realistic proposition for Russia to leave Ukraine, they consider it a matter of existential importance. If you had been paying attention to what they've repeatedly said since before the war began you would know that. You're basically putting conditions which are entirely unrealistic and that completely ignore Russia's stated position, and Russia are winning this war by the way. Ukraine is in no position to demand any of that. You're detatched from reality because you spend too much time in echo chambers and are looking at it as some sort of video game. Ukraine are at war with a nation that has 3x as many soldiers and 10x as many resources, they are incapable of winning militarily and are simply expending lives fighting what will ultimately be a loss for them. The fact that you believe Putin is evil and Ukraine are morally correct for fighting this war will not change the inevitable outcome.
I'd be happy if Russia went home today, I'd be happy of Ukraine accepted peace talks - whatever ends the fighting - because my position is simplistic, I want the war to end so the world economy can begin to recover, so people stop dying, and so that the risk of a nuclear war is lessened. That's it.
Last edited:
“under water weapons’ please please, some kind of one time use mini Gotland-class submarine.
Soldato
I believe its still the case that the last serious peace talk offer was the Swiss one, which Russia basically said they would not attend
Now Russia are gaining ground again their appetite for peace talks, bar their laughable offer*, are again back down to nothing.
They get to keep all the ground they have, get to veto Ukraines leadership (so they can install a puppet), allow Ukraine to join the EU, but cannot join NATO. I think there was a thing about limiting Ukraines military as well.
Yeah I mean who wouldn't want to accept those terms. Absolutely gives no impression at all that Russia would be back in 5-10 years to try again with a better plan this time.
Soldato
Zzzzzzzzzzz
Soldato
Suspended
Yes.
Hilarious nonsense. He might tell his people to expect a nuclear exchange, but who would be starting it? Not NATO. And do you really believe Putin would strike first? Against a NATO force in Ukraine, posing no threat to Russia? Utter insanity. Moscow would be a smouldering ruin within miutes if he did that, and he knows it.
The experts aren't predicting a nuclear apocalypse if NATO enters Ukraine without attacking Russia.
So, your only 'solution' is to let Russia win. Thank you for admitting that at last.
What conditions? I said this war could be over if Putin chose to end it. That is 100% true. You're saying he doesn't want to end it. I agree. Thus, the problem is not with the West, it's with Putin. The person who wants this war to continue is Putin. It's the West that wants to end the war as soon as possible. Putin doesn't want to end it until he's captured a huge slab of Ukraine (if not all of it).
But NATO is. The UN is. The US is. The EU is. That's why I'm saying NATO should get involved in the way I propose, because NATO has the power to make demands Putin must accept.
Yes, I think Putin is evil for invading a country and committing genocide against its citizens. Do you agree? Yes, I think Ukraine is morally correct for defending herself against invasion. Do you agree?
Yes, none of this makes any difference to the outcome of the war. I have consistently stated throughout this thread that Ukraine cannot win the war, and in the first two weeks I even expected Kyiv to fall. I have since reiterated my belief that Ukraine will lose, since support from the West is inadequate and Putin is prepared to send as many human wave attacks as he needs to get the job done.
You appear to have selective blindness when it comes to my posts.
Yes, your postion is simplistic. It's not realistic. It's just 'I wish everything would magically go away.' That's a child's worldview. You're like a kid putting his blanket over his head to hide from the monsters.
You don't have a solution, you're just hoping Russia will win sooner than later. That's why you're so angry at the West's support for Ukraine.
What risk of nuclear war?
Last edited:
Associate
They have been asleep at the wheel for years. That's the whole point! The British government are also shockingly bad at planning ahead. They've been cutting the size of our Armed Forces and failing to meet their needs/equip them properly for years, while Russia has been throwing its weight around in Eastern Europe. Other Western European NATO countries, like Germany, France, Italy and Spain, have been just as bad or even worse.
Britain buys its 155mm artillery shells from BAE Systems (a privately owned Arms manufacturing company), many/all other NATO member states also purchase them from private companies. Because the pursuit of profit is the very reason for a private company's existence they cannot suddenly massively increase production of shells (as they don't have huge fully equipped munitions factories and qualified workers standing idle, since that would be ferociously expensive). Therefore, to do that they have to repurpose/build factories and acquire/train new employees requiring a huge initial investment which they will only make if they have been given a cast-iron government contract to produce X million shells within a period of time too short for their existing facilities.
One advantage of being a militaristic dictatorship is that you instinctively keep munitions production high (and usually under direct state control) and you maintain surplus unused production facilities (built for previous wars), just in case you need them, which would be impossible in a peacetime liberal democracy.
The only way to manage the "lag phase" between ordering a huge increase in munitions production from private companies and receiving them is to be really on-the-ball and thinking far ahead, which is something that successive British governments and other Western European NATO governments have shown themselves to be incapable of doing.
Yes, actually, they had military conscription in Ukraine up to 2013 and then re-introduced it in 2014 (after the Russians took Crimea and destabilised the Donbass). Therefore, most Ukrainian men will have had basic military training in the past before being called-up for this war. Clearly, the same cannot be said for the average Brit.
Furthermore, being Ukrainians they will speak Ukrainian fluently and most speak Russian fluently too (which is obviously rather useful when fighting a war between Ukraine and Russia). Again, the same cannot be said for the average Brit.
What an incredibly naïve analysis. Putin violated the Budapest Memorandum and the Minsk Agreements, so what makes you think he would obey any new peace agreement with Ukraine when he thinks he has the upper hand? He would just use a pause in the fighting to re-arm and then attack again when he is ready. He only respects force and has no honour.
Fighting him to a standstill and maintaining strong forces capable of preventing any more attacks into Ukrainian territory is the only way to stop Russia. Pushing Russia out of Ukraine entirely would be much better, but it is clearly not possible thanks to the way modest/obsolete weapons systems and inadequate ammunition have been slowly drip-fed into Ukraine.
(Edited to make it clear that I meant that new manufacturing capacity would be required for a large increase in shell production. A smaller increase could be achieved by using the existing munitions factories more efficiently.)
Last edited:
Soldato
Yes, I have made a number of contributions over the last couple of years, predominantly United24. Gives you option to donate to different sectors (Defence/mine clearance/medical aid/rebuilding/education and science). If I have a flush month I might chuck £25-£50 their way. Not a lot but every penny counts I guess.
That’s the sort of level I was thinking. Cheers.
Thanks, just made a donation. Will try to make one every month.
Soldato
Its very difficult to say but generally most operations rarely work 24/7.
They may work that, but the costs of labour generally means over a reasonable period the optimum is more assets not working full time.
As such, and there is evidence of this from the American 155mm supplier(s), is that its fairly simple to increase production short term by just requiring or requesting overtime to be used and move to 24/7.
What most supply chains suffer from however is that the orders for materials will be just as limited, and also subject to further issues earlier in the supply chain.
So what you will find is that the constraint to production volumes will have numerous and differing constraints as you look at a timespan over 0-6 months.
Everything runs on JIT now, sudden changes in demand usually mean you will quickly find a constraint you didn't know about until you tried to increase production.
It can all be fixed, but it takes time and effort, and most importantly commitment.
A good example was the COVID testing, how you saw the ability to cope scale up.
They needed to get more tests, more who could perform the testing, more equipment etc
Each of those can be worked on simultaneously, but they will take differing times to come online, some can be improved in the short term by sweating the assets (including the staff) others will be fixed.
I would personally propose NATO had a requirement for all medium to large members to have an annual production of all the shared (eg 155mm) standard munitions of a number of days (or fraction of days) for the total NATO assumed usage.
They need to either stockpile the raw materials to do so, or have a guaranteed source.
Same with production capacity, either they have a private manufacturer within their territory who can ensure the delivery of the munitions, having supply guaranteed, or they have a state facility that may be mothballed but can be spun up relatively quickly if needed.
Soldato
But Russia isn’t going home today. And Ukraine has a legitimate grievance against Russia which can only be solved by Russia going home today.
You see the problem?
This is why we have a war.
Your position is delusionism/denialism dressed up a pragmatism. Which is pretty much the Trump position.
Last edited:
United24 is your best bet, I use them.
Soldato
- Status