Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

[Von Smallhausen]

You have to smile with irony when the US accuses Russia of violating sovereignty and trampling over international law. They do it spectacularly and look the other way when the likes of Israel do the same.

 

[AndyCroft1982]

Maybe the man in the picture killed the guy who name it is and stole his uniform? Could even be a friend or brother of the owner who wanted to get involved. Common links with Patrocles taking Achilles' armour in the Iliad. Maybe its a modern day Iliad?

 

[Devlish]

You have to smile with irony when the US accuses Russia of violating sovereignty and trampling over international law. They do it spectacularly and look the other way when the likes of Israel do the same.

Yeah, because its the same almost exactly.

 

[Von Smallhausen]

Same or not, the US had little credence in pointing the finger on the subject.

 

[Devlish]

Unlike Russia, which has supported a regime that has killed 140,000 people in the same time as Israel has killed 45 - but American support of that means they shouldn't be commenting on Russias unilateral invasion of Ukraine? I'm not following. proxy wars are proxy wars, if it was America doing the invading of the west bank you'd be onto something, but theres no hypocrisy here.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

You have to smile with irony when the US accuses Russia of violating sovereignty and trampling over international law. They do it spectacularly and look the other way when the likes of Israel do the same.

Israel is occasionally provoked into action by the acts of Iranian clients. When they act, they do so responsibly, trying to limit the death toll. Can the same be said of Assads regime in Syria, or even Russian actions in Chechnya?

 

[Devlish]

We'd better not degenerate into an Israel discussion here! We all know how they work out

So in the interest of keeping this on track, heres a BBC article about Putin's motivations. Quite interesting.

In the West, Moscow's intervention in Crimea has been denounced as "brutal aggression". In Vladimir Putin's mind, that is hypocrisy. He never loses an opportunity to remind the world about US intervention in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan.

In his speech to the Munich Security Conference in 2007, Mr Putin denounced what he saw as a "unipolar world" - a world where the United States was the single master. He has been determined to defend what he sees as Russia's legitimate interests around the world - be they in Syria, or closer to home in Ukraine.

What is more, with much of Europe relying on Russian energy imports and benefiting from trade with Moscow, the Kremlin calculates that its opponents in the West will not have the stomach for a serious falling-out over Russian muscle-flexing.

President Putin maintains he does not want to go to war with the Ukrainian people. He claims Russia's intervention is "humanitarian" to protect people there from "chaos".

But Russia's national interests will be paramount for him: ensuring the new government in Kiev cannot eject the Black Sea Fleet from Crimea and that Ukraine's new leaders think twice before embracing the West and rejecting Russia.

 

[Von Smallhausen]

Israel is occasionally provoked into action by the acts of Iranian clients. When they act, they do so responsibly, trying to limit the death toll. Can the same be said of Assads regime in Syria, or even Russian actions in Chechnya?

We are never going to agree on that.

 

[Jono8]

The world is literally hilarious

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/04/us-nobel-peace-idUSBREA231R920140304

 

[86JR]

You do realise Poland is a former communist country that went through the changes you've just mentioned, right? Poland and Ukraine were very similar in the late 80s.

If Poland is so great to live in then why are masses of their countrymen and women flocking to live in the UK instead?

 

[Zethor]

Merkel summed up Putin's motivations: the man is deluded.

He's being fed information by corrupt, nationalist secret services, much like the dictators of the former communist countries. I recall a meeting with Bush years ago in which he was on about the freedom of press, namely, that it's similar in both Russia and the US. To prove his point, he gave the example of a CBS (I think) excutive, who was apparently dismissed under the direct order of Bush..

This nonsense sounds amusing but when you consider this is what the most powerful people in Russia actually believe, it's not so funny anymore. Imagine what the US/UK would look like if the garbage/crackpot conspiracy theories on Fox/Daily Mail were what the country leadership actually believed.

If Poland is so great to live in then why are masses of their countrymen and women flocking to live in the UK instead?

Because the UK is doing better than Poland, which is doing better than Bulgaria, which is doing better than Ukraine. Get the drift?

 

[86JR]

And they would have plenty of time to get themselves up to spec, plus funding from the EU. Do you not think all the former Soviet nations were in a similar predicament?

The Russian market is approximately the size of ITALY, the rouble remains very weak and their economy is faltering due to an over-reliance on energy exports, in particular oil. Given that Iraq and Iran are planning to flood the market, oil prices will go into free-fall in the latter half of this year.

Do you SERIOUSLY think turning East is going to help the Ukranian economy?

I SERIOUSLY think it would be better for them than turning west.

Would having very recent painful experience of invading places where the locals don't want US/NATO forces "protecting" them be a factor?

I don't think the people in US government care about things like that.

The US is pretty much self-sufficient in energy now, so why would oil and gas be a motive for US intervention?

And it should be obvious that EVERYONE is afraid of a US/RU war, because the potential for us all to be turned to ash in a nuclear war would go up sharply. That doesn't mean Russia can act with impunity; if they were attacking a NATO nation, it's fairly certain conventional forces would be attacking the Russian military.

GREED. Self sufficiency is not enough for a country like the USA.

 

[Baron C]

It amazes me every time I witness these spats between nations.
Let's hope it doesn't escalate.

 

[oulton]

 

[Fr0dders]

Can you explain what happened in Georgia? Or was that ok because its russian culture to invade a country fighting for for democracy?

Of course it wasn't okay.

Just as it wasn't okay for us to illegally invade Iraq. We still did it however. The west is very hypocritical when it comes to pointing out how the rest of the world should go about its business.

We break the rules when it suits us, just as they do. We were funding the rebels in libya and providing "protection" from civilians by simultaneously helping the rebels by attacking the libyan army. The same army that we had been funding and providing arms to until it started shooting on their own people.

Gadafi's secret police were driving shooting and taking out leading rebels in armored 4x4s that came from the americans !

The world is not simply as black and white as West = good , East = bad.

I'm no more a fan of Putin than I am of our illegal activities. But that's the way the world works. We do what we want, then accuse others of wrong doing when they do the same. Likewise the russians are moaning about "undemocratic takeover" of Ukraine when the only reason they have a president was because they had a very violet, very undemocratic revolution themselves !

 

[mmj_uk]

The USA is protecting the US Dollar as world reserve currency, they have been living off the back of the rest of the world since WW2.

Iraq switched to selling oil in Euro's in 2000, they got invaded despite having nothing to do with 9/11 then quickly switched back to selling in USD post-invasion despite it being worse for their own economy.

Iran has been threatenening to do the same and have received lots of threats from the USA.

Libya, Gaddafi was trying to get African nations to switch to a gold backed currency.

The BRICS nations (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa) have all started trading together in their own currencies.

 

[Devlish]

The same army that we had been funding and providing arms to until it started shooting on their own people.

YeahI have got to say, i would be more upset if we kept on giving them arms after they did that. the russians are still doing that in Syria!

I have difficulty with this whole hypocrisy thing. I cant really draw a comparison between US/Russian proxy wars in the ME to Russia invading a neighbour. Even Iraq, seriously, there were UN resolutions. many didnt agree with them, might even have thought they were bogus, but they couldnt be touched from an international law point of view. Not the case here. Of course, I am sure there are russian lawyers who say differently!

 

[ubersonic]

Maybe the man in the picture killed the guy who name it is and stole his uniform? Could even be a friend or brother of the owner who wanted to get involved. Common links with Patrocles taking Achilles' armour in the Iliad. Maybe its a modern day Iliad?

It belongs to his "Cousin's sister's brother".

GREED. Self sufficiency is not enough for a country like the USA.

It is quite interesting that Saddam/Gadaffi had been doing what they were doing for years but it wasn't until they decided to stop selling their oil in dollars and switch to euros/gold that team America showed up

If Poland is so great to live in then why are masses of their countrymen and women flocking to live in the UK instead?

Because due to the economic differences the cost of living here is triple what it is in Poland but the wages are quadruple. Which basically means a Polish worker can live/work here, while sending more money home to his family/savings account than he could living/working in Poland.

Of course it wasn't okay.

Yes it was, if Georgia didn't want a spanking from Russia they should have thought twice before invading a non threatening sovereign state on the border of Russia and attacking Russia peacekeepers.

 

[ak22]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10677370/Ukraine-Russia-crisis-live.html

Looking more like Coup d'état by the day.

 

[scorza]

13.45 We cannot independently verify, but shocking if true.

The snipers who shot at protesters and police in Kiev were allegedly hired by Maidan leaders, according to a leaked phone conversation between the EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton and Estonian foreign affairs minister, according to Russia Today.

So basically, very unlikely to be true.

Just read this quote from Ed Milliband from back in '08 when Putin was up to his tricks in Georgia:

Russian armies can't march into other countries while Russian shoppers march into Selfridges

We've had over 5 years to prepare for this situation. Why are we doing nothing?