Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Robbo said:
I wanted your take on it. I was expecting a nice YouTube video with all the relevant information. Likely made by someone with an agenda of their own.

From what I can see you've come in and rolled out the trademark conspiracy theory lines, they're usually backed up with a few YouTube videos of some sort?
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You don't get it, it all adds up. Illuminati!
 
scorza said:
Does it? How exactly? It's the same footage that was shown on the BBC, the rest is unverifiable or assumptive. It's funny how lots of similar style videos appeared on ******** while Syria was all kicking off, providing "evidence" that for example the Syrian rebels launched a major chemical weapons attack.

Let's remind ourselves what the doctor at the centre of claims that Ukrainian snipers killed Maidan protestors actually said when contacted by a Telegraph reporter:
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Just saying how it looks. I am not saying it is right or wrong but the shots are coming from behind (as shown) and that was how it looked to me.
 
scorza said:
Russia seems to conducting this propaganda war along the lines of the plot of Inception - that you can start with a small idea - no matter how ridiculous then implant it into the consciousness of the gullible public and it just balloons into the Truth before anyone has had the chance to apply any sort of rigour or scrutiny.

This is the third time they've deployed this tactic - in 2008 Georgia, 2013 Syria and 2014 Kiev. In 2008 and 2013 it's turned out to be complete BS but of course, that's only established after Russia has got what it wants. People have got to wake up.
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It is not Russia that people need to wake up to.
 
Gregster said:
Just saying how it looks. I am not saying it is right or wrong but the shots are coming from behind (as shown) and that was how it looked to me.
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Honestly I don't know, it all looked very confused to me. My understanding of the events in Maidan were that the protestors were occupying the square, which would mean that they were surrounded on all sides by buildings. I don't know where the snipers were positioned but I do remember on the day seeing pictures of snipers setting up in parks as well as on high positions on buildings.

I would question why Maidan activists would conspire to shoot their own side. I mean it's not like the outcome of all this is certain days after the event so what on earth would be the point. I can't imagine a conversation like this taking place: "Lads, let's shoot a few of our comrades, that'll be sure to mean Yanukovych flees to Russia and we can take control". Whereas on the the other hand I can imagine the state ordering a brutal crackdown on an inconvenient protest (we did it in the UK to a lesser extent during the student protests in 2010). Occam's razor anyone?

Edit: it's also worth pointing out that a lot of rumours are floating around in Kiev that the snipers were actually Russian Special Forces, which would suit my argument nicely. However I haven't seen any credible evidence of this either so continue to maintain that the simplest explanation, that it was a state-ordered crackdown that backfired, is the likeliest until I see some evidence that stands up to scrutiny.
 
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scorza said:
Russia seems to conducting this propaganda war along the lines of the plot of Inception - that you can start with a small idea - no matter how ridiculous then implant it into the consciousness of the gullible public and it just balloons into the Truth before anyone has had the chance to apply any sort of rigour or scrutiny.

This is the third time they've deployed this tactic - in 2008 Georgia, 2013 Syria and 2014 Kiev. In 2008 and 2013 it's turned out to be complete BS but of course, that's only established after Russia has got what it wants. People have got to wake up.
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It was found by the international community that Georgia was responsible for the Russians attacking.

In Syria there were so many incorrect stories and false reporting, a strike on Syria to teach them a lesson was a stupid idea. Russia was right on this one and made Obama look like an idiot.

So your admitting the side taken by Russia two of out of three times was correct yet was not valid because it was established only after Russia has got what it wants ??? Most stupid thing I've read today.

I think they have a valid point over this one too.
 
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Johnnytoxic said:
It was found by the international community that Georgia was responsible for the Russians attacking.

In Syria there were so many incorrect stories and false reporting, a strike on Syria to teach them a lesson was a stupid idea. Russia was right on this one and made Obama look like an idiot.

So your admitting the side taken by Russia two of out of three times was correct yet was not valid because it was established only after Russia has got what it wants ??? Most stupid thing I've read today.

So 66% of the time it seems Russia is correct.
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Sorry but I think you'll find that, an EU report found that both Georgia and Russia were equally to blame for the war, and that Russian actions to push into Georgia and the subsequent destruction was a clear violation of international law.

On Syria - are you asserting that it was indeed a group of Syrian rebels who launched the chemical weapons attack on Ghouta?
 
Zethor said:
You don't get it, it all adds up. Illuminati!
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Not the Easter bunny :eek:

The only way to approach this whole situation is to believe neither side. The Americans meddling in the background trying to influence their choices into any new government and then the tape being released. The EU offering partnership and closer ties was simply bribery at the highest level trying to out spend Russia for influence. Then Russia, trying to maintain a sphere of influence by any means necessary.

The pawns in the middle, everyone in the Ukraine.

No tinfoil hats, just lots of backstabbing and trouble causing from filthy and low international politicians.
 
scorza said:
Sorry but I think you'll find that, an EU report found that both Georgia and Russia were equally to blame for the war, and that Russian actions to push into Georgia and the subsequent destruction was a clear violation of international law.

On Syria - are you asserting that it was indeed a group of Syrian rebels who launched the chemical weapons attack on Ghouta?
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Georgia started the conflict by attacking Tskhinvali.

I've no idea who launched the chemical attacks.
 
Is it OK to still be on the fence or should I have picked a side by now?

Suspect nobody really knows what's going on, much like Syria.
 
oulton said:
Video evidence that the maiden protesters were shot by their own snipers from behind. Truly abhorrent.


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That video only shows evidence of people getting shot, where the bullets are being fired from would be impossible to tell. Bullets are not lasers, they bounce and break up etc... The man turning to look at the camera could have been turning as he heard the sound of a spinning bullet exiting the tree or turning to face the sound of a gun, who knows.
 
It's not as simple as "picking a side" anyway, there are no "good guys" or "bad guys" contrary to what nearly all media outlets like to imply - it's completely subjective. Plus the fact that every angle of the debate has some sort of ulterior motives and there are so many different factors at play here - nobody is necessarily in the "right" or "wrong" here; this is not Physics or Mathematics, this whole crisis is based on subjectivity and thus each different person's ideals and viewpoints.
 
PhysicsMan94 said:
It's not as simple as "picking a side" anyway, there are no "good guys" or "bad guys" contrary to what nearly all media outlets like to imply - it's completely subjective. Plus the fact that every angle of the debate has some sort of ulterior motives and there are so many different factors at play here - nobody is necessarily in the "right" or "wrong" here; this is not Physics or Mathematics, this whole crisis is based on subjectivity and thus each different person's ideals and viewpoints.
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True, it's not about good guys vs bad guys, it's more about the lesser of two evils. On one side you've got the West with its business/geopolitical interests but which also promotes freedom and democracy, on the other you have Russia with its interests but which represents authoritarianism and corruption.

This "balanced" approach some of posters here have is a joke in most cases. I'd understand if you were Russian or lived in Russian zones of influence - you'd at least know what it's like to live there. That's not the case, is it? It's hypocritical to sit on your pc, enjoy every little perk the West offers unconditionally such as freedom of speech, and then use the latter to present a "balanced" approach on the issue.

The people of Ukraine want what you guys have and they want to be given the chance to earn it themselves. There was no violence against the Russian minority, Putin only intervened because he saw he was losing his grip on the country.

The fact of the matter is, every European country that went the EU/NATO route enjoyed prosperity, decreased corruption, democracy and freedom. It is clear which side is the lesser evil here.
 
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Woah - a Russia Today anchor quits live on air claiming she can no longer be part of a network supporting a Putin whitewash.


Ain't the free press a bitch Vlad?
 
A few have said it and this is the thing for me "Who are the bad guys?" Nothing is clear or defined.

If that Russian news anchor wants/needs hugs, I am available :D
 
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