Associate
How much of a difference is there between the MPS4 and MPS4S?
**Unofficial Tyre Thread**
- Thread starter rossk26
- Start date
There are only a couple of tyre sizes that I can see on the Michelin website where they overlap. Smaller sizes are catered for by the 4 and bigger by the 4S! So on the same car it would be difficult to find out!
Had my car in with VW over the week. They've done the work it was in for but they have also recommended replacing all four tyres and checking the wheel alignment:
Front Right - 3.5 MM - inner edge worn
Front Left - 3.5 MM
Rear Right - 3.5 MM - outer edge worn
Rear Left - 3.0 MM - outer edge worn
I'm not going to get the work done with VW as the cost is over £400 and I can get it cheaper elsewhere, but wanted to get some opinions of whether it even needs to be done.
Front Right - 3.5 MM - inner edge worn
Front Left - 3.5 MM
Rear Right - 3.5 MM - outer edge worn
Rear Left - 3.0 MM - outer edge worn
I'm not going to get the work done with VW as the cost is over £400 and I can get it cheaper elsewhere, but wanted to get some opinions of whether it even needs to be done.
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Soldato
Michelin recommend you do not change the tyres at 3mm. They recommend that you run them down to 1.6mm before changing them, and that modern tyre technology allows them to work as intended right until the end of their life. Michelin say that the 3mm "recommended" tread depth only ever occurred because manufacturers perpetuated this myth because it's profitable. A tyre with 1.6mm will feel better, handle better, have better dry performance, have better wet performance, will use less fuel and generate less noise.
Aquaplaning resistance (which is *not* the same as wet weather performance) is the only area where the drops are more noticeable.
I would replace them at 2mm. However if yours are wearing on the shoulders you need to get your alignment done or you'll be through to the cords before the main tread of the tyre is worn
Aquaplaning resistance (which is *not* the same as wet weather performance) is the only area where the drops are more noticeable.
I would replace them at 2mm. However if yours are wearing on the shoulders you need to get your alignment done or you'll be through to the cords before the main tread of the tyre is worn
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At 1.6mm a tyre will not be clearing much water at all
but obviously Michelin will tell you their tyres will be fine...because that is how they sell their tyres - they last longer! Obviously they last longer if you use them till 1.6 mm even if that does mean several brown trouser moments trying to control an aquaplanning car at 70 mph 
I'm presuming you have been sold on the wet weather performance equates to how sticky the tyres are on a wet surface as opposed to aquaplanning which is how much water is cleared. Most road cars I would suggest are not limited by stickiness to the road when the roads are wet but can find themselves driving through big 'unseen' puddles at night where aquaplanning performance makes a *big* difference. Big here equates to surviving a 4 wheel skid at 70 mph or crashing. Just saying.
Soldato
A tyre with more tread only becomes relevant when it's driving through sufficiently deep water that the tyre can't clear the water quick enough because of the speed the car is doing - ie. you're driving through a big puddle at speed, or the entire road is flooded and you want to drive quicker. Aside from this - having tread on your tyres is a burden to performance, longevity, efficiency etc.
Whilst the tread depth will be a big factor (probably the biggest) in aquaplaning resistance this must be considered against the fact that it only happens very rarely that you go through very deep puddles at high speeds. That's not to say that you should drive around on slicks, because you still need to prevent against aquaplaning, but the tyre is going to spend infinitely more time driving around dry and wet roads than it will crashing through deep puddles. Also, contrary to what you're saying, the vast majority of people who crash on wet roads do so as a result of losing grip in the wet, not because they have aquaplaned from hitting a big puddle. Tyre technology now allows higher levels of grip in these everyday conditions. It is for this reason why two major studies have found there is no correlation between tyre tread depth and the number of accidents - and its probably going to be because of what i've just said - the scenario of hitting a body of water at sufficiently high speeds to completely lose control is a comparatively rare one. The 1.6mm that most countries have come up with as being the minimum safe depth have done so as a result of the testing, accident data and input from experts.
The whole thing is a balance, which nearly every country has agreed on 1.6mm being the limit. Sure you could replace your tyres at 3mm and be able to hit deep puddles quickly without aquaplaning, in the same way you could replace them at 5mm and be able to hit even deeper puddles at even quicker speeds.
Michelin have come up with well reasoned arguments about why we should use our tyres down to 1.6mm, backed up with science and evidence. The other tyre companies seem to show over simplified posters, that are suspiciously similar to the ones where they compare "Winter tyres vs Summer tyres", and claims like "below 3mm the performance drops off" which is a great soundbite, but has no substance.
Whilst the tread depth will be a big factor (probably the biggest) in aquaplaning resistance this must be considered against the fact that it only happens very rarely that you go through very deep puddles at high speeds. That's not to say that you should drive around on slicks, because you still need to prevent against aquaplaning, but the tyre is going to spend infinitely more time driving around dry and wet roads than it will crashing through deep puddles. Also, contrary to what you're saying, the vast majority of people who crash on wet roads do so as a result of losing grip in the wet, not because they have aquaplaned from hitting a big puddle. Tyre technology now allows higher levels of grip in these everyday conditions. It is for this reason why two major studies have found there is no correlation between tyre tread depth and the number of accidents - and its probably going to be because of what i've just said - the scenario of hitting a body of water at sufficiently high speeds to completely lose control is a comparatively rare one. The 1.6mm that most countries have come up with as being the minimum safe depth have done so as a result of the testing, accident data and input from experts.
The whole thing is a balance, which nearly every country has agreed on 1.6mm being the limit. Sure you could replace your tyres at 3mm and be able to hit deep puddles quickly without aquaplaning, in the same way you could replace them at 5mm and be able to hit even deeper puddles at even quicker speeds.
Michelin have come up with well reasoned arguments about why we should use our tyres down to 1.6mm, backed up with science and evidence. The other tyre companies seem to show over simplified posters, that are suspiciously similar to the ones where they compare "Winter tyres vs Summer tyres", and claims like "below 3mm the performance drops off" which is a great soundbite, but has no substance.
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Do you work for Michelin lol?
Seriously can you provide evidence of these two studies because when I asked Michelin for the same a few weeks ago - they said none existed!
Oh and one suggesting a loss of wet weather performance is to blame for more accidents in the wet compared to aquaplanning!
Road legal track tyres, talk to me.
I'm currently running Nankang NS2R on my Clio 200 Cup and while it's an exceptional track tyre for the price I've found that I felt them starting to 'go off' after about 6 laps on my last track day despite keeping an eye on the pressures all day, also they are a nightmare to balance which is to be expected from a brand like this, when they fronts are dead which'll be soon I plan to replace all 4.
I'm currently torn between the Yokohama AD08R and the Michelin PS Cup 2. Yoko is £350 a set and the Michelin is £500. (215 45 17).
I had the AD08R on my old Fiesta ST and found it very good but just wondering if the Michelin is worth the increase in price? If anyone's had experience with this tyre especially on track please let me know
I'm currently running Nankang NS2R on my Clio 200 Cup and while it's an exceptional track tyre for the price I've found that I felt them starting to 'go off' after about 6 laps on my last track day despite keeping an eye on the pressures all day, also they are a nightmare to balance which is to be expected from a brand like this, when they fronts are dead which'll be soon I plan to replace all 4.
I'm currently torn between the Yokohama AD08R and the Michelin PS Cup 2. Yoko is £350 a set and the Michelin is £500. (215 45 17).
I had the AD08R on my old Fiesta ST and found it very good but just wondering if the Michelin is worth the increase in price? If anyone's had experience with this tyre especially on track please let me know
Caporegime
I've heard good things about the Toyo R888 and the Federal 595RSR, might be worth giving them a look too?
e; Never mind, the AD08R is probably better than both of those anyway. I thought you were looking for alternatives.
@Frozennova runs them on his car and speaks highly of them. Not sure if anyone here has the PS Cup 2's.
e; Never mind, the AD08R is probably better than both of those anyway. I thought you were looking for alternatives.
@Frozennova runs them on his car and speaks highly of them. Not sure if anyone here has the PS Cup 2's.
Gaygle,
Have a read of this. Not sure if you have to be registered on LinkedIn though.
There are substantial increases in dry braking distance let alone wet.
I've heard good things about the Toyo R888 and the Federal 595RSR, might be worth giving them a look too?
e; Never mind, the AD08R is probably better than both of those anyway. I thought you were looking for alternatives.
@Frozennova runs them on his car and speaks highly of them. Not sure if anyone here has the PS Cup 2's.
I had the 595's before and I absolutely wouldn't have them again, they all crack across the tread which is very alarming and they are pitiful in the wet. R888's are a fantastic track tyre but I wouldn't want one on the road, whatever I choose has to be suitable as an every day tyre
Associate
I'm running them on the Mx5. Done 10k miles and a few trackdays now and they're about half way worn, equally as they're rotated often.
The grip in both wet and dry really is great and steering feel is excellent.
Soldato
Road legal track tyres, talk to me.
I'm currently running Nankang NS2R on my Clio 200 Cup and while it's an exceptional track tyre for the price I've found that I felt them starting to 'go off' after about 6 laps on my last track day despite keeping an eye on the pressures all day, also they are a nightmare to balance which is to be expected from a brand like this, when they fronts are dead which'll be soon I plan to replace all 4.
I'm currently torn between the Yokohama AD08R and the Michelin PS Cup 2. Yoko is £350 a set and the Michelin is £500. (215 45 17).
I had the AD08R on my old Fiesta ST and found it very good but just wondering if the Michelin is worth the increase in price? If anyone's had experience with this tyre especially on track please let me know
I've no first hand experience of either, but if it's any help the Ring Taxi folks all run AD08R as dry / slightly damp tyres. I think they're much better VFM than the Michelin, which by all accounts are fantastic but expensive.
A good read...thanks for sharing that.
As he has not suggested he or Michelin have any evidence to the contrary it is fairly obvious that his post was rather mis-informed.
Man of Honour
My rear CSC6s are on 3 or 4mm at the moment, have not noticed their wet grip get any weaker though. Been driving a bit harder just to get them worn down faster so I can replace them with PS 4S! The CSC6 has been far more composed in the wet than the PSS were. Just a shame they wear really quick.
Man of Honour
lol
If you're driving harder to wear them down, why not just bite the bullet and replace them now.A few donuts in a car park will help you out.