Suspended
Far too much common sense. Give your head a wobble.
Violence in Selfridges and "drill music"
- Thread starter dowie
- Start date
Far too much common sense. Give your head a wobble.
I feel that someone ostensibly from Sidcup admitting that they are “country bumpkins” is a welcome step forward.
For too long the inhabitants of e.g. Welling, Bexley, Eltham, and Croydon have claimed to be Londoners, citing some planning error that has put their hamlets into the London Borough of wherever.
In actual fact, aside from some London emigrés, for the most part they are a bunch of wannabes, easily recognised by their extensive amount of tattoos and their broken noses, and some of the men are just as bad.
Man of Honour
Drill doesn't originate from the UK so of course it's not just local to the UK. I'd also argue that it's an evolution of pirate radio era rap in the UK, and there's been many genres of music before drill that feature similar levels of violence and gang culture.
A catalyst for what?
Caporegime
Haha, I'm from a small village in Essex originally but I lived in Beckenham and Sidcup for about 4 years and then moved out to (Royal) Tunbridge Wells where I still live.
I am under no illusions that I have never and will never be a londoner.
Caporegime
Not everyone that's in Sweden is Swedish.......
Especially the East African immigrant posse that do temp work here at Christmas and summer
I have no context. I had no idea what race or colour the person was who called you whitey. Would those people consider themselves Swedish or whatever nationality they hark from? Its always been a strange one in the UK. If you ask anyone who has even the slightest hint of black heritage they will tell you they are black even if their grandparents came to the UK and their parents and themselves were born in the UK, they still seem to think they are more "country X" than British etc.
Same in the US. Everyone wants to tell you they are irish or whatever else. Personally I couldn't give a giraffe what country my ancestors were or were not from.
I don't, I think its a massively white country but have close to 0 context of who called you whitey I didn't know if that was a Swedish thing or just someone who wasn't white calling you that.
I appreciate what your saying. Ultimately, it’s a matter of construction and intention. There are evidently enough people that are disgruntled by it to warrant clarification (or, rather, it requires such little effort to clarify that it then becomes obnoxious to avoid doing so). I still do not think the phrase is ‘inherently wrong’ but would at this point I would agree that the lack of clarification of intention is unhelpful.
Caporegime
It's quite far removed from that era, and has reduced in lyrical content with meaning into simple extreme bragging and shock value.
Yes, there have been many forms of music with similar levels of violence, but the only relatable with similar audience demographic I can think of is the hardcore gangster rap (or murder rap) I previously mentioned.
Sorry, I thought that was obvious... For the increase in extreme violence and "post code" territorial gang violence within the poverished youth - as per thread.
Yes, the connotations, moreover. It's pointless because it's entirely subjective. The word literally just means of or from a city [classical Greek, urbs, urbis: town, city].
You do realise meanings of words change over time and with context?
Yes, indeed.
Good. So you can understand how it can be construed that the op was trying to make this about race, and/or present some racist connotations as the phrase clearly doesn’t only relate to ancient Greeks. To suggest it only has one meaning is disingenuous at best.
Therefore it’s entirely reasonable he should be called out over it, unless you don’t think we should call out potential racism.
Therefore it’s entirely reasonable he should be called out over it, unless you don’t think we should call out potential racism.
The meaning of the word 'urban' hasn't changed though, unless you are getting your definitions from the 'urban dictionary'... oops is that racist now?
It hasn’t changed, but it has been expanded. Is dictionary.com an acceptable source for you?
It’s perfectly ok to say, “ah, I hadn’t heard that usage before but I understand it is a reasonable interpretation”. Instead of putting your fingers in your ears and pretending you are always right.
Yup, though have already told the poster there was no deeper meaning. I don't think he's actually interested though, he's not attempted to discuss the issue itself.
Likewise in this post I provide several examples of it's use:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/forums/posts/34785405/
But despite that it seems various people will just make up their own argument regardless, so what is the point in pandering to them?
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Associate
Is half this thread trying to dodge the unpalatable fact that overwhelmingly this sub culture is black and that is a clear long standing problem in the community towards violence mainly around the young male population?
Must be tough being aspiring in this community wanting it to be getting better and having white liberals wring their hands at word usage and ignore the problem. Its not a new problem and lots of us would actually like it solved rather than ignored. My school days were ruined with it and the ineffectualness around it. I got lucky and escapes lots of people don't.
Must be tough being aspiring in this community wanting it to be getting better and having white liberals wring their hands at word usage and ignore the problem. Its not a new problem and lots of us would actually like it solved rather than ignored. My school days were ruined with it and the ineffectualness around it. I got lucky and escapes lots of people don't.
You're kind of missing the point though: in essence you are correct, as far as I am aware, but on OCUK the argument is not about the topic, but about opposing posters wanting to be right. It doesn't matter what it's about, but they will argue till the cows come home about the smallest point - a lot of the time they argue for the sake of arguing. It will get increasingly heated until either one of them gives up, dies, their posts are removed or the thread is locked.
Let's not pretend dowie wanted to talk about the issue. Indeed, the only three questions he asked were around the identity and quality of the guys rapping. Which begs the question, if it was about that why did he not post it in the music forum?
Dowie isn't an idiot, I suspect that he knew full well that "urban youth" in the context he presented it was a derogative word for black people. Add to this his use of "their usual antics" it's quite clear he was making a statement that black youths "usually" commit crime and this is what they usually get up to. Which is clearly wrong, unless you happen to side with the racists.
I think it's quite clear that he wanted to stoke that fire and make another race thread. For why? Well, you can draw your own conclusions but the usual suspects have certainly enjoyed their day out in it!
So, what are we actually here to discuss dowie? Why not edit your OP to remove the uncertainty and the obvious race baiting?
Dowie isn't an idiot, I suspect that he knew full well that "urban youth" in the context he presented it was a derogative word for black people. Add to this his use of "their usual antics" it's quite clear he was making a statement that black youths "usually" commit crime and this is what they usually get up to. Which is clearly wrong, unless you happen to side with the racists.
I think it's quite clear that he wanted to stoke that fire and make another race thread. For why? Well, you can draw your own conclusions but the usual suspects have certainly enjoyed their day out in it!
So, what are we actually here to discuss dowie? Why not edit your OP to remove the uncertainty and the obvious race baiting?