Volkswagen cheats emissions tests!

More details emerging this morning

Audi says 2.1 million cars affected
Posted at 10:40
VW said last week 11 million of its motors have been hit by the diesel emissions scandal. A breakdown is emerging. VW-owned Audi said 2.1 million of its cars were fitted with software that can dodge US emission tests. About 1.4 million Audi vehicles with EU5 engines are affected in Western Europe, 577,000 in Germany and almost 13,000 in the US, a spokesman told Reuters. Affected models include the A1, A3, A4, A5, A6, TT, Q3 and Q5.
 
Well I just thought the same this morning to replace the A6 but Audi have now removed all the petrol engines from their brochure.

So it looks like i will be buying either an A4 or a BMW 5 series..
 
platypus said:
I just wonder how many other manufacturers have been doing the exact same thing, and VW just got caught first.

Yes. Millions have been missold something that also has health and environmental consequences. Why would you not care?
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Oh yer, I'm positive that's the main reason most people bought a dag dag and not because of the MPGZ and low tax (major concern on an expensive car...)

To most people they won't give two hoots, unless the government changes the tax status on them, i which case there would be uproar.
 
TripleT said:
Oh yer, I'm positive that's the main reason most people bought a dag dag and not because of the MPGZ and low tax (major concern on an expensive car...)

To most people they won't give two hoots, unless the government changes the tax status on them, i which case there would be uproar.
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As above, I bought my diesel for two reasons,
1) I either got the 1.2 TFSI or the 1.6 TDI both have the same power output but the TDI has more torque and better MPG.
2)I did 30,000 miles for work and about 15,000 personal a year, it cost me nothing extra to get the diesel over the petrol so initial cost was irrelevant.

I no longer do the work mileage so would like to change to a petrol, if I got told tomorrow I'd have to get mandatory work done that would reduce power output I'd be telling them to keep the car and give me something of the same age and condition to replace it. But with a petrol engine in it. If they could fix it without any performance loss I'd happily have the work carried out.

Ultimately, there was nothing I could have done/known when "buying" the car so at this point in time I couldn't care less.
 
Six6siX said:
Their fault for buying a dag dag in the first place.
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Oh it's their fault the manufacturers went to great lengths to cheat is it?

TripleT said:
Oh yer, I'm positive that's the main reason most people bought a dag dag and not because of the MPGZ and low tax (major concern on an expensive car...)

To most people they won't give two hoots, unless the government changes the tax status on them, i which case there would be uproar.
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Shrug, some people do care, and even if its still just for the savings they've been missold too. Would imagine if there was a tax status change that there would be a fair few compensation claims against vw..
 
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Latest from the German Press is that the reason for the evasion was that VW finance deemed it too expensive to fit a 300 euro per engine AdBlue system and told the designers to find another option.

That option turned out to be ECU software from bosch that enabled the car to be put in a "test" mode when on the rollers and behave differently. VW used this to cheat the emissions test and when Bosch found out, they wrote to VW warning them that was never intended for production cars and was illegal, but VW carried on anyway.

http://jalopnik.com/vws-diesel-cheating-began-with-cost-cutting-report-1733348111

More interesting tit bits form the article.

Once again more groups say VW’s emissions cheating is, not surprisingly, the tip of the iceberg. Via Reuters:

New European cars are spewing out on average 40 percent more carbon dioxide than laboratory tests show, an environmental campaign group said on Monday, saying Volkswagen’s rigging of emissions tests was only part of much wider cheating.

[...] The new report from Transport & Environment (T&E), which works closely with the European Commission, said its data did not prove other carmakers were using such devices.

But it said the gap between lab results and road performance had grown for emissions of carbon dioxide, as well as nitrogen oxides, to such an extent that further investigation was needed to discover what carmakers were doing to mask CO2 emissions.
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Remember when Hyundai got nailed hard for exaggerating their fuel economy claims? Another European group (they’ve been emboldened by VW lately, it seems) says Mercedes has the biggest gaps between stated numbers and real-world tests. Via Bloomberg:

Mercedes-Benz topped a European lobbying group’s list of carmakers to overstate fuel economy for the second year in a row in an annual study that may receive extra scrutiny amid Volkswagen AG’s diesel-engine test scandal.

Vehicles built by Daimler AG’s Mercedes division used 48 percent more fuel on average than their published statistics claim, with gaps exceeding 50 percent on new A-, C- and E-Class models, Brussels-based Transport & Environment said Monday. BMW’s 5-Series and the Peugeot 308 produced differences between real-world and laboratory results of just under 50 percent. Across the industry, the gap widened to 40 percent last year from 8 percent in 2001, with the difference between published specifications and actual fuel use costing a typical driver an additional 450 euros ($500) yearly at the pump.
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Stringy said:
Waiting for the revelation now that Seat and Skoda are also affected, shock horror...
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They are.

VW group have already confirmed that a total of 11 million vehicles across VW Audit, Seat and Skoda are affected.

We've only got that number broken down for Audi so far, and we know some 500,000 VWs in the USA were affected.

Jokester said:
So it looks like pretty much every TDi of recent years is effected across the Audi range.
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Not quite. Its specifically the Type EA 189 engines that's affected.

http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-admits-it-cheated-with-11-million-engines-s-1732283322
 
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Fr0dders said:
They are.

VW group have already confirmed that a total of 11 million vehicles across VW Audit, Seat and Skoda are affected.

We've only got that number broken down for Audi so far, and we know some 500,000 VWs in the USA were affected.



Not quite. Its specifically the Type EA 189 engines that's affected.

http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-admits-it-cheated-with-11-million-engines-s-1732283322
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We now know that it's 3.3M from Audi + Skoda, and that Audi accounts for 2.1M of the 3.3M.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34377443
 
platypus said:
Oh it's their fault the manufacturers went to great lengths to cheat is it?
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Yes, in a round about way - i'm not saying manufacturers are blameless btw :p

If the mindset of Joe Public wasn't "OMG I NEED MOAR MPGZ AND DAGS TO SAVE 20 PENCE A YEAR!" then manufacturers wouldn't be pushed to flog supposedly eco diesels that cheat emissions tests so that they appear attractive to potential buyers.

99% of people couldn't give a **** how much pollution their car kicks out - it's all about the money in their pocket and it so happens that diesel achieves this to a greater extent than petrol cars.

End result = diesels become the go-to segment for anyone looking to run a car on a budget and petrol development takes a backseat despite being the cleaner fuel.

Governments introduce stringent emissions requirements which car makers have to cheat to pass, because they don't want to lose their market share of people who now believe they need a diesel car for cheap motoring.

Petrol cars have finally continued development to the point now where they are vastly more economical than they used to be and more able to compete with the economy offered by a diesel (without stupid cheat devices). Anyone buying a car for average or less mileage should buy a petrol and not be drawn in by the herd and ignore the numbers game of ridiculous mpg and low tax pushed by manufacturers.
 
Six6siX said:
Yes, in a round about way - i'm not saying manufacturers are blameless btw :p

If the mindset of Joe Public wasn't "OMG I NEED MOAR MPGZ AND DAGS TO SAVE 20 PENCE A YEAR!" then manufacturers wouldn't be pushed to flog supposedly eco diesels that cheat emissions tests so that they appear attractive to potential buyers.

99% of people couldn't give a **** how much pollution their car kicks out - it's all about the money in their pocket and it so happens that diesel achieves this to a greater extent than petrol cars.

End result = diesels become the go-to segment for anyone looking to run a car on a budget and petrol development takes a backseat despite being the cleaner fuel.

Governments introduce stringent emissions requirements which car makers have to cheat to pass, because they don't want to lose their market share of people who now believe they need a diesel car for cheap motoring.

Petrol cars have finally continued development to the point now where they are vastly more economical than they used to be and more able to compete with the economy offered by a diesel (without stupid cheat devices). Anyone buying a car for average or less mileage should buy a petrol and not be drawn in by the herd and ignore the numbers game of ridiculous mpg and low tax pushed by manufacturers.
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I hear what you're saying, but it shouldn't matter at all what the car buyer is thinking in that regard, nor really should Governments introducing stricter and stricter emissions (I know it does but it's not right is it?); that is to say I guess that car manufacturers shouldn't be cheating just as part of a cost cutting exercise should they? Hence why I said what I said. In a long and convoluted, roundabout fashion.
 
I look forward to the day Diesel cars are no more.

The other day I was following a 306 which smelt like a mobile chip shop, caused my car 1 second of inconvenience before it auto recirculated and made me really want chips.
 
platypus said:
I hear what you're saying, but it shouldn't matter at all what the car buyer is thinking in that regard, nor really should Governments introducing stricter and stricter emissions (I know it does but it's not right is it?); that is to say I guess that car manufacturers shouldn't be cheating just as part of a cost cutting exercise should they? Hence why I said what I said. In a long and convoluted, roundabout fashion.
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Absolutely - a huge part of the problem here is the government mandated emissions control exercises and (in this country, at least) a taxation system based on only one aspect of emissions control...for some reason.

Again, it boils down to cost saving for the consumer - why would the average motorist choose a petrol car when it gets taxed more heavily (even though the cost of VED is not a significant proportion of the purchase price of a new vehicle). Why would someone choose a petrol company car when the tax benefit of a diesel far outweighs it? Why choose a less efficient petrol engine (because until recently, the petrol equivalents have not been developed as much as the diesels)?

VED should undoubtedly be on the miles covered (i.e. fuel used) if it is to be based on emissions and harm to the environment. There is no fairer way...but that's a different debate altogether.

Car manufacturers are cheating because if they don't, diesels won't meet the public perception and won't qualify for tax breaks and Mr VAG will have all his cars removed from every company car listing across the country.

I disagree that it shouldn't matter what the buyer is thinking though - the entire industry is driven by the consumer - if the majority of people are buying diesels (and a lot of people are buying diesels for the wrong reasons!), any manufacturer would be stupid to not focus development in the diesel sector.
 
Firestar_3x said:
I look forward to the day Diesel cars are no more.

The other day I was following a 306 which smelt like a mobile chip shop, caused my car 1 second of inconvenience before it auto recirculated and made me really want chips.
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If it's like the ones round here that seem to have popped up lately no doubt it had some sort of remap that dumps the contents of the fuel tank out the back as soon as you touch the throttle.
 
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