VR... wait or invest now?

[D3K]

All gaming is subjective, some gamers didn't like any of the Witcher games or Skyrim yet people would class them as platform defining games. I don't even like Lone Echo, Echo Arena or Project cars but I would be fool to deny the impact they have had in VR gaming. I don't know how much more platform defining you can get than those games.

If you got bored of it, fine, happens us all, but to say "no platform defining games" is not really true. I mean if you haven't touched the Vive in over 1.5 years, then you haven't played Robo Recall, Lone Echo, Echo Arena, Moss, Budget Cuts, Beat Saber, Skyrim VR, Star Trek Bridge Crew and so much more. Oh man, you have missed out on so much!! Not to mention all the improvements that have come to other games.

I'm talking about a game that makes people sit up and take notice and think "I have to get VR". Yes all the things you mentioned are fun but they are not HMD shifters. Where Half Life had me purchase my first PC, there does not exist such a game for either Rift or Vive.

I played the early access of Robo Recall, it was just a generic stand-spin-shoot like Brookhaven. Budget Cuts demo was fun, had promise, but it was too long in development and I haven't heard anyone rave about it since it was released. Bridge Crew sounds unique but not my cuppa.

The things that have blown me away with the device were: the Oculus dreamdeck vignette (its the one I always showed new people, even on vive), The Lab, Accounting, and Lost. All of those are really really short experiences that you rarely go back to (except The Lab, I played with the blow and arrow a lot).

Rec Room and AltSpaceVR have made the best attempt at something persistent and worth going back to, but they're attempting to recreate real-life inside VR.

If Valve deliver on their promise of 3 VR-only games I will sit up and take notice again.

 

[Born2BSlow]

I have to agree with @D3K ... I'm a huge fan of VR, but then I only really play racing sims/games, and I did that before VR with triple screens. I use the room scale to wow people, getting them to stand on the edge of the building in Dreamdeck is brilliant. There just isn't that one absolutely killer must have VR to play game yet. Until that comes along and generates the demand it won't become mainstream. It's a must have for me now that I'm hooked on it though, if mine broke beyond repair I'd have to replace it.

 

[NeverWinter]

Yeah, racing is the main thing I use it for.

 

[Zeeflyboy]

I agree that most people I have showed it to were impressed and enjoyed the experience, however currently precisely 1 of my friends owns a VR headset (well 2 if you count the one with PSVR)... so that positive impression hasn't exactly converted over into sales of HMDs in my case.

I think a couple of years into next gen when you have both the next gen experience AND a semi-reasonable price point, I will probably start to see a few more of my friends jumping in. In addition, by then the next gen of consoles will be around and might possibly bring a decent VR experience at a more affordable entry point. Given the above I honestly don't see VR becoming significantly more mainstream among gamers until probably mid 2020's.

 

[.one.]

I bought vr for DCS only with out that then no interest for me but also is a joy to see peoples reactions I am starting to develop for vr just for kicks the last time I was interested in programming was in the Amiga day's in assembler hitting the hardware this is the only platform that has relighted my fire.

 

[melmac]

And I don't agree with you guys. There will never be that one killer VR game that gets people to buy headsets, well not in the way that a good game will sell PCs or consoles. VR is different than pancake gaming. With Pancake games you can read reviews and watch game clips etc and get a rough idea of the game play and how good it will be. But, that's not true of VR games. No amount of reading reviews or watching Youtube videos will prepare you for the moment you put on the headset. It is a whole new world but most people think it's something like 3D. Or else they have tried it on those cheap phone VR things and are judging the whole VR world on that and have no idea of good it can be.

Because it's not the games/experiences that are the problem. It's the other things. The cost is the big one. If you want a good VR experience you need to be buying the Rift or the Vive at least. IF it was just a case of buying the headset, I think a lot more people would have one. But, the problem is, that for a lot of people out there, it also involves buying a PC or upgrading the one they have. Combine that with people's lack of knowledge to how good VR can be, then the having the best game ever released would still make a VR headset a hard sell.

Look at Lone Echo, like how good of ratings does a game have to get before it's considered platform defining? People have been rating it their best gaming experience ever. You go on any gaming forum and talk about Lone Echo you will get overwhelmingly positive replies back. You would be told to buy it. And when you buy Lone Echo, you also get Echo Arena free. And Echo Arena was one the first games used in the VR ESports League. Seriously, how platform defining do you want? Two games in one, that could only work in VR.

But, I think VR gaming is going to lead to more specialisation. People won't buy the headset because of a one time killer VR game, they will buy the headset because it's the next step up in game genre that they like. Like the people who bought the headset for Elite Dangerous, or the people who bought the headset for Flight sims, racing car sims etc. I bought the headset because of Eleven: Table Tennis and it's the game I play most. The other games will be a bonus, but, they will mainly use the headset for one or two games.

 

[aoaaron]

From a potential buyers perspective,

VR DEFINITELY lacks a Breath of the Wild... you know a game which makes you just buy a console instantly, knowing the experience will be incredible.

The resolution still really really worries me.

 

[D3K]

People won't buy the headset because of a one time killer VR game

Yes, they will.

If all the other concerns are fixed and there's still no game that people say "this is why you should buy VR" people will still see it as a luxury/curiosity. The media sells hardware. Hardware sells hardware to first adopters and enthusiasts only. Look at OLED and 4K TV. The majority still won't buy it because most broadcast channels are stuck on 720p let alone 1080p, yet there is a huge amount of content to be enjoyed from other sources.

 

[Born2BSlow]

A lower price would make it more accessible, but I don't see how they can get it much lower than the £350 current price for the rift, everyone wants everything dirt cheap today, but there are limits. There are dev costs to absorb into the price as well as components and this is top end consumer electronics, if they don't make money they'll stop making them. Look how much new smartphones are... as aoaaron says, there are games that make stuff like this an instant buy...and when that happens it will take off, I can't see the price dropping much below where it is now based on market price for other consumer electronics products.

Of course if the bosses weren't paid 129-145% more than the workers and investors didn't expect dividends that might help too.... (controversial!)

 

[melmac]

From a potential buyers perspective,

VR DEFINITELY lacks a Breath of the Wild... you know a game which makes you just buy a console instantly, knowing the experience will be incredible.

The resolution still really really worries me.

But, it's not the games that are holding you back from buying one is it? You seem to be most concerned with the resolution. Let's use your example of Breath of the Wild, and you have no PC capable of VR or a VR headset. Would you, with your concerns about the low resolution, buy/upgrade a PC, then buy a VR headset just for that one game? If it gets to the stage where people can just buy a headset for the game price as a console, then people will might buy based on the strengths of one game.

And, I know I am repeating myself now. But, pancake gaming and VR gaming are totally different. Do you like Skyrim for example? With pancake Skyrim you are controlling a character on screen. But, in Skyrim VR, you are the character. It doesn't matter how well I explain it or write about it, you still won't understand what I am talking about until you actually put on a headset and play a game.

Look it, you have been sitting on the fence for weeks now. Buy the Rift, buy it today. You will be amazed.

 

[melmac]

Yes, they will.

If all the other concerns are fixed and there's still no game that people say "this is why you should buy VR" people will still see it as a luxury/curiosity. The media sells hardware. Hardware sells hardware to first adopters and enthusiasts only. Look at OLED and 4K TV. The majority still won't buy it because most broadcast channels are stuck on 720p let alone 1080p, yet there is a huge amount of content to be enjoyed from other sources.

And I keep telling you there are lots of games/experiences in VR. Games and experiences that are good enough to sell headsets, but, that's not the problem, the content isn't what's holding people back. When you can get a complete VR experience for the same price as a console then sure a single game will be enough to push people over the edge. We are a long way from that.

The majority won't buy 4K and OLED TVs because they don't see the difference, and definitely not worth the price. People will start buying 4K TV's when they are only option in the store. It's not the lack of content because there is loads of content out there.

 

[melmac]

A lower price would make it more accessible, but I don't see how they can get it much lower than the £350 current price for the rift, everyone wants everything dirt cheap today, but there are limits. There are dev costs to absorb into the price as well as components and this is top end consumer electronics, if they don't make money they'll stop making them. Look how much new smartphones are... as aoaaron says, there are games that make stuff like this an instant buy...and when that happens it will take off, I can't see the price dropping much below where it is now based on market price for other consumer electronics products.

Of course if the bosses weren't paid 129-145% more than the workers and investors didn't expect dividends that might help too.... (controversial!)

Did you read my post? The price of the headset is only the beginning, you still need to have a PC capable of running that headset. People might love a game on VR, but, they aren't going to spend money to buy a headset, then spend money upgrading their computer to play one game. The majority of PC gamers are still using crap video cards and old CPUs. They wouldn't even come up to the bare minimum to use a headset.

When a VR headset can be sold on it's own like a console or a smartphone and get a proper VR experience, then the games might make it an instant buy.

 

[D3K]

I disagree with the perspective you're trying to spin with your rebuttals. Media sells hardware, it's always been like that. If people can't afford the hardware they'll scrimp and save to get there.
The world cup shifted a massive number of 4K TVs this year to football fans with the promise of 4K games. I know this first-hand because I did work for a fit-out company who designed the Samsung stands in Currys and JL. For anyone not into footy, the lure was lost on them.

Your view on price is myopic. By contrast, google cardboard is pennies and works with a phone that everyone has in their pocket. Still the vast majority have never used it. Why? Because there's no one app that has everyone screaming 'YOU MUST TRY THIS'. But, imo the swing-in-the-city app on android was amazing. It gave me the major taste of VR I was looking for before Vive. Vive came along and built on that substantially, but cardboard stole it's thunder for the virgin experience. Even that isn't tempting to the masses and I tried to get many people into it. I even 'acquired' cardboard knock-offs from an Autodesk event and gave them to friends and family as stocking fillers. Not one person used it.

 

[Born2BSlow]

Did you read my post? The price of the headset is only the beginning, you still need to have a PC capable of running that headset. People might love a game on VR, but, they aren't going to spend money to buy a headset, then spend money upgrading their computer to play one game. The majority of PC gamers are still using crap video cards and old CPUs. They wouldn't even come up to the bare minimum to use a headset.

When a VR headset can be sold on it's own like a console or a smartphone and get a proper VR experience, then the games might make it an instant buy.

Oh you mean like Oculus Go, yeah that's selling like hot cakes at around £100....

 

[melmac]

I disagree with the perspective you're trying to spin with your rebuttals. Media sells hardware, it's always been like that. If people can't afford the hardware they'll scrimp and save to get there.
The world cup shifted a massive number of 4K TVs this year to football fans with the promise of 4K games. I know this first-hand because I did work for a fit-out company who designed the Samsung stands in Currys and JL. For anyone not into footy, the lure was lost on them.

Your view on price is myopic. By contrast, google cardboard is pennies and works with a phone that everyone has in their pocket. Still the vast majority have never used it. Why? Because there's no one app that has everyone screaming 'YOU MUST TRY THIS'. But, imo the swing-in-the-city app on android was amazing. It gave me the major taste of VR I was looking for before Vive. Vive came along and built on that substantially, but cardboard stole it's thunder for the virgin experience. Even that isn't tempting to the masses and I tried to get many people into it. I even 'acquired' cardboard knock-offs from an Autodesk event and gave them to friends and family as stocking fillers. Not one person used it.

I never said media doesn't sell hardware. Of course it does, The point I am making is that's not the problem with VR at the moment. Cost is just one of those problems. The perception of VR from those cheap VR headsets is another problem. @DONOHUE07 posted a list of games on the last page, all those games are brilliant. There are also some amazing experiences like the Blu, Google Earth, Discovery Space and graphic programs like Medium, Quill, Kingspray Graffiti.

Not one person used it because it's rubbish. I even addressed this very point. Those mobile VR headsets are rubbish, even the PSVR is nowhere near as good as the Rift Or Vive. My friends all have one version or another, some have the gear some have the google cardboard and they all thought VR is a stupid gimmick. But, to man, they changed their minds completely after trying out the Rift. But, when I went through the costs involved, they lost interest. If they just had to buy the headset, they all would have been onboard, but, having to buy a PC capable of running the Rift was too much.

 

[melmac]

Oh you mean like Oculus Go, yeah that's selling like hot cakes at around £100....

Why do you think you are trying to say? The Oculus Go isn't a full VR experience. It doesn't even come close to the Rift or Vive. And according to reports the Santa Cruz won't be as good either, maybe a better display then the Rift and more degree of Freedom than the Oculus Go, but still lacking as an overall experience compared to the Rift/Vive.

 

[DONOHUE07]

Anyone on the fence, buy a Rift set it up and if you are not blown away by the intro and the free games available on both Oculus and Steam, then VR as it stands today may not be for you.

One thing I am sure off though, PCVR is miles ahead of any VR, nothing else comes close

 

[Born2BSlow]

I don’t know why you’re getting so upset. I believe I’m allowed to disagree with you, in fact I don’t entirely. Yes price will help, but there has to be something really killer for VR to really take off and become mainstream. Nintendo sells consoles because people love Mario. Yes they’ll sell a few more if they’re cheaper, but unless there is one killer game that you can’t play without VR it won’t really explode. That is my opinion.

Screen quality is better in Oculus go than Rift according to someone at work who develops stuff using both.

 

[Uncle Petey]

Even with a killer app, VR isn't gonna be mainstream anytime soon. PC gaming itself is expensive and niche as it is.

OP, if you have a decent enough PC and have the funds available, just buy a Rift/Vive and try it out. Send it back if you don't like it.
You'll either forgive what they lack in resolution and get on with enjoying the experience or you won't.
If you don't have a PC, don't buy one just for this. Get one if you want a gaming PC anyway.

 

[aoaaron]

But, it's not the games that are holding you back from buying one is it? You seem to be most concerned with the resolution. Let's use your example of Breath of the Wild, and you have no PC capable of VR or a VR headset. Would you, with your concerns about the low resolution, buy/upgrade a PC, then buy a VR headset just for that one game? If it gets to the stage where people can just buy a headset for the game price as a console, then people will might buy based on the strengths of one game.

And, I know I am repeating myself now. But, pancake gaming and VR gaming are totally different. Do you like Skyrim for example? With pancake Skyrim you are controlling a character on screen. But, in Skyrim VR, you are the character. It doesn't matter how well I explain it or write about it, you still won't understand what I am talking about until you actually put on a headset and play a game.

Look it, you have been sitting on the fence for weeks now. Buy the Rift, buy it today. You will be amazed.

Yes I would.

I bought a switch knowing the game library was very poor, they weren't likely to have a good 2019 games wise, the resolution of the screen is meh, the framerate is meh and there will be a version 2 of the console in a couple of years.. because BOTW is that good.

I also bought a PS4 pretty much exclusively due to Bloodborne.

I also bought a PS3 late last gen just to play TLOU.





____________

I agree though, you are right in many ways. I think my main worries about buying/investing in VR at present are:
1. Waiting for NVIDIA new graphics card
2. I'm actually playing pancake Skyrim now sadly so not sure if double dipping and playing freshly after pancake will have the same impact
3. I think my gaming room is too small as it stands because my 65 inch tv takes up a bit of space as I didn't wall mount it.

It also however doesn't help that theres not that flagship title which makes me throw points 1-3 logic to the wind and get one.


I'm not trying to be critical of the VR experience as I haven't experienced it and I'm sure its awesome. However I think its hard to debate that the quality of games is sadly lacking and it doesn't help when titles like REsident evil which look AWESOME on the PSVR aren't being ported over even a year later.