Watch Dogs

Martini1991 · 30 Jan 2014 at 18:58

The gap won't close really, whatever happens to one will happen to the other really in terms of optimisation, they are the same architecture. The actual factual difference in the GPU's is massive, it really is a few tiers.
End of the day, I don't think MS should have released the Xbox one with the GPU grunt it has, I see it as trying to slow progression to be perfectly honest.

They may very well eek more out of the Xbox one, I don't deny that at all, but in the same breath, they'll do exactly the same thing with the PS4. We can't get away from the fact, these consoles are factually the same in architecture.

Davey_Pitch · 30 Jan 2014 at 19:00

Martini1991 said:
The gap won't close really, whatever happens to one will happen to the other really in terms of optimisation, they are the same architecture. The actual factual difference in the GPU's is massive, it really is a few tiers.

That's most likely true, and while I don't believe the XB1 will ever match the PS4, I've seen driver revisions on my PC bump performance by several percent, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that MS may close the gap somewhat. Of course, it's just as possible Sony could extend their lead. Only time will tell I guess.

Martini1991 · 30 Jan 2014 at 19:03

Davey_Pitch said:
That's most likely true, and while I don't believe the XB1 will ever match the PS4, I've seen driver revisions on my PC bump performance by several percent, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that MS may close the gap somewhat. Of course, it's just as possible Sony could extend their lead. Only time will tell I guess.

You see a driver that improves GCN performance, but it'll do the same thing on the other GCN cards, so since these are the same arch, when ones gets better, so does the other (But there's still that massive gap)

The Xbox one's GPU is like a bandwidth hobbled 7790 or something, whereas I think the PS4's is like a 7850/7870 or something, but it's not hobbled with bandwidth.

GCN isn't even new, it's been around since the end of Q4 2011.

muggs · 30 Jan 2014 at 19:05

Davey_Pitch said:
If people want to discuss the differences between the two next gen versions of the game please do it here.

why close one thread for a said reason then post a message in here and say its ok to talk about said reason?

surely it would be more off topic to talk about said reason in this thread? the closed thread was perfect for said reason

just read your reply about generic power argument....well the title of the closed thread was really generic power argument in different words. that thread should have been closed as soon as you saw it

Davey_Pitch · 30 Jan 2014 at 19:11

muggs said:
just read your reply about generic power argument....well the title of the closed thread was really generic power argument in different words. that thread should have been closed as soon as you saw it

As I said, I hoped the thread would be more informative, containing links to articles and discussion over which version to buy (though that is fairly obvious IMO). It descended into the generic power argument that's been done to death. That's why it was closed, after I made two requests to keep the thread about the game itself.

Anyway, it's done and I've given my reasons. I know not everyone will agree with them, but that's always the case. Lets get back to the game chat please

Davey_Pitch · 30 Jan 2014 at 19:14

Martini1991 said:
You see a driver that improves GCN performance, but it'll do the same thing on the other GCN cards, so since these are the same arch, when ones gets better, so does the other (But there's still that massive gap)

Don't both consoles use different drivers for their operating system? That's how I understood it, meaning both companies could make independent improvements. If that's not the case then I've misunderstood something!

Martini1991 · 30 Jan 2014 at 19:16

Davey_Pitch said:
Don't both consoles use different drivers for their operating system? That's how I understood it, meaning both companies could make independent improvements. If that's not the case then I've misunderstood something!

Couldn't really tell you, we'd all be grasping at straws and guessing on that front.

In a PC environment, you've got Linux/8 Drivers etc, but in the case of Windows 7/Vista etc, it's all the same driver really.

Wouldn't AMD be at the helm of drivers? Being it completely their APU.

Davey_Pitch · 30 Jan 2014 at 19:19

Martini1991 said:
Couldn't really tell you, we'd all be grasping at straws and guessing on that front.

In a PC environment, you've got Linux/8 Drivers etc, but in the case of Windows 7/Vista etc, it's all the same driver really.

Wouldn't AMD be at the helm of drivers? Being it completely their APU.

I'd assume that AMD probably make generic drivers for the GPUs, but both MS and Sony could make improvements in how it works with their OS. Of course, I'm just guessing here, I could be way off base.

Martini1991 · 30 Jan 2014 at 19:21

Well with SteamOS, drivers are all down to AMD/Nvidia/Intel really.
And it'd really be how it works with the API more than the OS AFAIK.

Davey_Pitch · 30 Jan 2014 at 19:26

This link suggests that both consoles run separate drivers - http://gamingbolt.com/xbox-one-upco...things-xbox-os-team-best-in-the-world-insider

Edit: This link suggests the update will provide the XB1 with a 10% performance increase - http://gamingbolt.com/xbox-ones-dri...t-devs-were-speechless-with-ps4-8gb-gddr5-ram

ps3ud0 · 30 Jan 2014 at 19:26

I think it possible to have a discussion about the hardware/software differences in say the Tomb Raider DE comparison thread because its a game thats due out and we have substantial number of sources to back up particular points to aid and direct discussion...

When it comes to the Watchdog thread it was always going to amount to a generic power argument because its based on an individual rumour so people would cling to the most obvious/easily defended facts/differences as its hard to jump to points about, say drivers, without a shred of evidence to lead you to that...

Ultimately its going to be a feature of all multiplat discussions, just like it was last gen - its not a new argument - the only thing really new is how similar (identical to some) the technologies used in the console hardware. So whats good for the goose is good for the gander...

ps3ud0 :cool:

muggs · 30 Jan 2014 at 19:28

Davey_Pitch said:
As I said, I hoped the thread would be more informative, containing links to articles and discussion over which version to buy (though that is fairly obvious IMO). It descended into the generic power argument that's been done to death. That's why it was closed, after I made two requests to keep the thread about the game itself.

Anyway, it's done and I've given my reasons. I know not everyone will agree with them, but that's always the case. Lets get back to the game chat please

ok

can i make a thread titled "generic power argument" where everyone can just let it all out and it can all be kept in one place and if the argument does ever come up in other threads you can point them to the generic power argument thread?

Davey_Pitch · 30 Jan 2014 at 19:29

Yeah, the Tomb Raider thread seems fine (though I've only glanced at it) as all the discussion is in context and with sources. I've no issue with that.

An Exception · 30 Jan 2014 at 19:32

Davey_Pitch said:
As I said, I hoped the thread would be more informative, containing links to articles and discussion over which version to buy (though that is fairly obvious IMO). It descended into the generic power argument that's been done to death. That's why it was closed, after I made two requests to keep the thread about the game itself.

Anyway, it's done and I've given my reasons. I know not everyone will agree with them, but that's always the case. Lets get back to the game chat please

You keep missing the below point. From a LOGICAL perspective, no one can agree. We can't really get back to game chat due to severe restrictions.

Martini1991 said:
You keep ignoring this.

The thread you've locked was about the difference, one running at 720, one running at 1080p.

The hardware is the reason, thus talking about the hardware was on topic.

Unless I'm missing something? Please tell me, if I am.

Davey_Pitch · 30 Jan 2014 at 19:33

muggs said:
ok

can i make a thread titled "generic power argument" where everyone can just let it all out and it can all be kept in one place and if the argument does ever come up in other threads you can point them to the generic power argument thread?

If you feel it'll be useful, I have no real problems with it. I don't see a need for it myself, but if people want it, I'm happy.

Davey_Pitch · 30 Jan 2014 at 19:36

An Exception said:
You keep missing the below point. From a LOGICAL perspective, no one can agree. We can't really get back to game chat due to severe restrictions.

I haven't missed anything, I answered the bottom quote directly. I really don't see what was so hard to grasp about my decision. It's been done, and I'm through explaining why. If you want to continue this discussion, feel free to send me a Trust message and we can do it privately.

An Exception · 30 Jan 2014 at 19:37

Davey_Pitch said:
This link suggests that both consoles run separate drivers - http://gamingbolt.com/xbox-one-upco...things-xbox-os-team-best-in-the-world-insider

Edit: This link suggests the update will provide the XB1 with a 10% performance increase - http://gamingbolt.com/xbox-ones-dri...t-devs-were-speechless-with-ps4-8gb-gddr5-ram

Now you are talking about power. Also it's an 8% increase. 2% remains reserved for voice recognition.

Martini1991 · 30 Jan 2014 at 19:38

Davey_Pitch said:
This link suggests that both consoles run separate drivers - http://gamingbolt.com/xbox-one-upco...things-xbox-os-team-best-in-the-world-insider

Edit: This link suggests the update will provide the XB1 with a 10% performance increase - http://gamingbolt.com/xbox-ones-dri...t-devs-were-speechless-with-ps4-8gb-gddr5-ram

Sounds a bit sensationalist really

Still a far sight off what the PS4 can do.

It's good, but it's still not going to bridge that gap, which is still huge.

Davey_Pitch · 30 Jan 2014 at 19:39

Martini1991 said:
Still a far sight off what the PS4 can do.

I'd agree with that, I was merely illustrating a point

Tummy · 30 Jan 2014 at 20:16

This argument is not exclusive to this forum, but why do ~people~ keep saying that Microsoft will 'close the gap' or talk about developers getting the most out of the Xbox One?

If we take that same logic, then the PlayStation 4 will just increase in performance, maintaining the gap or increasing it.

I saw no reason to close the other thread personally, clean it up a bit if you felt so inclined.

There is not an argument to be had, shock horror, the most powerful console produces better frame rates, better resolutions and I'd argue better actual visuals.

Now, while no doubt people will talk about game play being the be all and end all, it is not. It is a combination of everything, visual, audio and game play, games look 'worse' on the Xbox One which does effect the experience when you consider that for less money there was another console with better hardware.

Also; the PC snobs can just go away, everyone is aware they are the master gaming race and they should be above flaunting it.