Weekend Football; 31st -1st - *SPOiLERS*

BaZ87 said:
Keane started most of our games up untill the end of November. Why should Rafa persist with him if he's not playing well?

Had this been a foreign player nobody would care. It's as simple as that.



lol what a load of rubbish. So Keane's dropped but Tevez is being left out to give Berbatov a chance to intergrate :D

Like i said previously, Keane was only going to become a regular if he played extremely well. Torres and Gerrard were always the first choice front pairing. Keane had to take his chances (which he had plenty of because of injury) to secure his place, he didn't so he got dropped.

As i asked you above, why's Keane so special that he can't be dropped? Is he better than Gerrard or Torres?
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erm sorry, but how is that a load of rubbish? isn't it fairly accepted practice that new signings be given a run in the team even if they don't immediately perform to standard? Liverpool didn't spend £20million on a player to act as a backup, there are enough games in a season and enough places in a side for 3 class players to work. unless you want to always go on relying on Gerrard and Torres (and n'gog) in your push for success on all fronts.

You will try to make excuses for Benitez, as always, but the simple fact of the matter is that this whole thing has been badly mishandled and he has to take a decent share of the blame for that, and nokkonwuds point about the book holds true, some of the things that have come out in the media as well as what we see for ourselves on the pitch can do nothing for the players confidence. fans

I honestly can't remember seeing a keane like (major signing, complete fall from grace) story happen so quickly to one of the 'bigger' clubs, when has it last happened?
 
DanH84 said:
erm sorry, but how is that a load of rubbish? isn't it fairly accepted practice that new signings be given a run in the team even if they don't immediately perform to standard? Liverpool didn't spend £20million on a player to act as a backup, there are enough games in a season and enough places in a side for 3 class players to work. unless you want to always go on relying on Gerrard and Torres (and n'gog) in your push for success on all fronts.
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If the new signing was signed to be a first choice player then fair enough. Keane wasn't certain to play every game and had to prove himself but despite that he has had more than enough chances, playing consistently up untill December (which you've constantly ignored) for one reason or another. We're not the only team with players costing similar amounts sitting on the bench are we? And Rafa didn't decide to pay £20m on Keane. Had we spent £10m would that have made your view any different?

Isn't it also common practice that a player will be dropped when your better players are now available, especially when the player covering them has been playing poorly?

Im not denying Rafa has to take a share of the blame, he's the manger and needs to find a way of getting the best out of Keane (maybe dropping him will do that) but i find it funny how people who were calling for Berbatov to be dropped (because he wasn't playing well) can then blame Rafa for dropping Keane.
DanH84 said:
I honestly can't remember seeing a keane like (major signing, complete fall from grace) story happen so quickly to one of the 'bigger' clubs, when has it last happened?
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I told you before. Sheva at Chelsea.
 
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BaZ87 said:
The rest has no relevance to what i asked. Benitez has never slagged off Keane. He's left him out of the side a few times and left him out of the squad for a FA cup game and tbh had good reason to based on his performances.

Benitez isn't the first manager to drop a player but for some reason when you drop a British (yes i know Keane's from ROI) player it gets blown totally out of proportion. Like i said, Tevez was dropped without any reason (you've spent enought time moaning about that yourself) yet we don't get half the hysteria about Fergie ruining Tevez (despite him not playing anywhere near as well as he was last season).
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You've just proven my point. Ferguson is able to do stuff like dropping players for what he believes to be the greater good whilst still maintaining positive morale in those who have been dropped.
I get the impression Benitez's actions irk more people than they aid and this season he has become a very unlikeable man without an ounce of class.

Do I think Tevez should have been dropped? No. But Ferguson felt that Berbatov and Rooney was better for Manchester United, and as odd a decision as that seemed at the time we're now 5 points clear at the top of the Premier League, one cup down and still in the other 3 and on top of that Tevez has come back in and been more than positive in all his actions. Also, there is a difference between being dropped from a first XI of which Keane for large periods has never been a starter, and before that seldom did he finish a game, I believe you can count his 90 minute run-outs on one hand, and being dropped from a squad, particularly one that lacks strength in depth like Liverpool's, and when you're bringing on players who aren't going to make a difference like El Zhar or N'gog over someone with proven Premier League pedigree like Keane then you have to question the Managers motives, is he helping morale or is he destroying someones confidence? Definitely the latter in the case of Keane, this was never the case with Tevez who was told he would be rotated and also made 3rd choice.

Oh, and having watched Liverpools latest games why hasn't Torres been dropped for the same reason? Because there is no way Keane was playing worse then than Torres is now. The fact is Benitez doesn't understand how to get the best out of strong players, hell, he could even put Gerrard on the right-wing as he's better than Kuyt out there and play both Keane and Torres and let them learn to build up a partnership (something that hasn't been given time). People said Tevez and Berbatov couldn't play together, but those comments were incredibly premature being that they didn't have time to get to understand each other - much the case with Torres and Keane, but look at them now. We're scoring goals, they're playing well, hell, going by the last few games they've linked up stronger than Berbatov and Rooney did (although that has something to do with Berbatov settling - again, something Benitez hasn't allowed).

This is what Ferguson does better than any other manager, Benitez can barely keep his strongest XI happy where as Ferguson has done it with his whole squad, from the kids through to the OAP's.
 
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Have we heard anything from Keane to say he's not happy or (for example) any less happy than Tevez was at being dropped? And Tevez's form isn't what it was last season either.

Like i've said this has been made into a major issue because Keane's British/Irish. It was the same at Chelsea with SWP and Sheva. SWP was ruined by Chelsea but Sheva just wasn't up to it any more.
..we're now 5 points clear at the top of the Premier League, one cup down and still in the other 3 and on top of that Tevez has come back in and been more than positive in all his actions.
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That's the other factor. Keane was left out vs Newcastle and we won 5-1, it didn't get a mention but because we've drew our last few games its because Keane's been left out. If the teams playing well then nobody cares, but if they're not then the press look for a stick to hit the manager with. It used to be 'rotation' now it's this.

I do agree (and have said before) that Benitez has a lot to learn when it comes to man management.
 
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The money you have spent you should be up thier but you are like a 9 year old trying to reach the dirty mags.

I would love Liverpool to win the league but the sort of crap the team and management have been putting out is shocking for a club of their stature. Everton show you up for what you are every year.

Wigan, Man United and Everton to boss the North West :D
 
skippi90 said:
He's an utter ****.

Has some cheek saying he'll report Harry for alleged tapping up for Keane. He seems to have forgot how he went about unsettling Keane in the first place and how we dropped the evidence we sent to the FA.
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Spurs have forgotten rather quickly about how "attrociously" they where treated by Utd and Liverpool in the summer, by tapping up themselves - you only dropped the evidence because Liverpool (and Utd I think) made an additional payment to one of your benevolant causes or something




Gigantic difference between the Keane and Tevez situation (even without the debate whethere Tevez was the best player when he was dropped) the fact is he is on loan, and he also knows how a WINNING team like Utd work, throughout the season you will get your chances (as he is currently, and will again before the season is finished with), most Utd will have "lost" is the £3m of this season's loan fee, nothing like the £20m of a permanent transfer

If you have a loan player - yeah he should be the first to sit out a game IF you need to try and get a permanent player working with the team (which benefits the club in the long run, rather than a loan in the short term), not a purchased player scoring goals in the EPL getting in form and then being dropped

Everyone mentions the Liverpool mauling of Newcastle 5-1 , and that may well be the performance of the season, but didnt Keane score in your two previous matches, how does anyone know if Keane wouldnt have scored in Newcastle and continued to have IF his run of games had continued....but because he was dropped the confidence gained in previous scoring games was lost. Completely ***** man-management.

Everyone at Utd knows how to win leagues - therefore Tevez is surrounded by people keeping him psychologically boosted for when he does get on the pitch (with so many games coming up, he was always likely to get a load of games at some point) - Liverpool as players dont have any clue how to win the league and so need everyone in good spirits as much as possible, even without their manager putting pressure on the team with farcicle rants to the press :)
 
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Now now kids play nicely.

Keane is the unfortunate victim of some terrible politics dividing Anfield at the moment. Rafa didn't want to pay that much for him, Parry approved the transfer @ £20 mil. Rafa is now trying to make a point about the deal during his contract negotiations.

Brian Reade hit the nail on the head with his column in the Mirror yesterday:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/colum...ling-in-different-directions-115875-21084536/

You don't suddenly become a bad player because your manager has taken a dislike to you and althought it may appear that Benitez is dropping him out of spite the fact of the matter remains simple: Keane has had many, many chances to impress at Liverpool and has played badly in 90% of the games he has been in. If a manager persisted playing him based on his run of form he would be called crazy and accused of cracking up...oh wait :)
 
Youstolemyname said:
You don't suddenly become a bad player because your manager has taken a dislike to you and althought it may appear that Benitez is dropping him out of spite the fact of the matter remains simple: Keane has had many, many chances to impress at Liverpool and has played badly in 90% of the games he has been in. If a manager persisted playing him based on his run of form he would be called crazy and accused of cracking up...oh wait :)
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Neither did Berbatov, but he was given the backing by the manager by giving him time and getting all the players to work harder to make the transition easier and this is with a player that's much lazier than Keane. Ferguson is willing to change and alter a tried and tested formula if he thinks it will benefit us, Benitez full out refuses to change a formation and system that has won them absolutely nothing.

I guarantee that if Ferguson was running that squad at Liverpool he would have Keane playing well and have Gerrard and Torres playing too, the morale would be better and they'd play more enjoyable football.
 
NokkonWud said:
Ferguson is willing to change and alter a tried and tested formula if he thinks it will benefit us, Benitez full out refuses to change a formation and system that has won them absolutely nothing.
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4-2-3-1 suits us, 4-4-2 doesn't as BaZ has highlighted many times before. Taking that in to account, where does Keane play? Upfront instead of Torres? Behind Torres where Gerrard has done so well and is more creative than Keane?


Edit: Good post on RAWK that's probably close to summing up the situation.

Rafa wanted Barry.
Parry wanted Keane.
Keane was signed by Parry without Rafa's knowledge and/or with Rafa agreeing because he had no other choice.
Rafa doesn't see where Keane fits in, Parry thinks he does.
Rafa doesn't play Keane because he doesn't fit in.
Keane knows Rafa doesn't really want him there, and his performances drop off.
Rafa comes out and says he wants more control over transfers because Parry has too much control re: Keane.
Keane isn't picked by Rafa, forcing Parry into selling him or losing ****loads of cash on the deal.
Keane is sold.
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I don't believe that Rafa didn't want Keane but it's obvious he didn't rate him at £20 million. If he got him for the price he thought he was worth, probably a lot less than £20 million, using him as a backup to Torres wouldn't have looked like such a waste of money.
 
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