Weekend Football Thread *spoilers*

G|mp said:
I picked Alonso as the weaker of the 3 midfielders I named, you know as well as I do he hasn't got a chance of replacing Xavi or Iniesta at the moment.

Hence why he's probably not classed as World Class by some people.

You can see how the conversation would go........."Fabregas, he's World Class, excellent player"

"Yeah but he can't even get into the Spain starting 11 so how can he be classed as World Class"

You can see their point really.
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Yeah he has a point each country only has 11 world class players :rolleyes:

Oh and Ramsey plays in the starting 11 for his national team so by that erm...logic then Ramsey is better than fabregas

Fabregas wouldnt even get into the Wales team as their starting 11 are all world class and he isnt. I wonder why Wenger hasnt seen this yet and keeps starting fab?
 
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Somewhat surprised to see all the talk in the media about Arsenal being back in the title race, I mean yes they have closed the gap slightly but bearing in mind their inferior squad and long-term injuries they need to be leading from the front, not languishing 6pts off the pace. It's all very well winning against the alsorans like Wigan, Birmingham, Liverpool etc but when they played the top sides like Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City they lost.

Anyway regarding the whole 'world class' debate, IMO world class doesn't mean you'd be in the best XI in the world, it means that you're playing on a similar level to those sort of players. So for example, depending on what players are around at the time, you might have say only one world class leftback, but 5 world class strikers.
 
bloodline76 said:
Oh and Ramsey plays in the starting 11 for his national team so by that erm...logic then Ramsey is better than fabregas

Fabregas wouldnt even get into the Wales team as their starting 11 are all world class and he isnt. I wonder why Wenger hasnt seen this yet and keeps starting fab?
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I don't think you understand how logic and theory works.

He's not saying, "if a player is in the national team they are world class", as by that logic, there would be something like 400 world class centremids in the world. He's saying that if you are NOT in your national team, then you CAN'T be world class, as by definition there must be better players in your position.

Being in your national team does NOT prove that there is nobody better than you. But being left out of the national team DOES prove that there ARE better players (obviously assuming that the best team is picked, ignoring any managerial preferences etc).

Or to look at it another way, being left out of the Spain team means that there must be at least two better central midfielders in the world, and possibly more. Whereas being picked for Wales (or Spain, or Brazil, or anyone else) proves nothing on the world stage, as you aren't competing for places with players from other nationalities.
 
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HangTime said:
Somewhat surprised to see all the talk in the media about Arsenal being back in the title race, I mean yes they have closed the gap slightly but bearing in mind their inferior squad and long-term injuries they need to be leading from the front, not languishing 6pts off the pace. It's all very well winning against the alsorans like Wigan, Birmingham, Liverpool etc but when they played the top sides like Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City they lost.
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I take your point but remember Arsenal are only 3 points behind if they win their game in hand, which puts a slightly different complexion on the proceedings :)
 
HangTime said:
I don't think you understand how logic and theory works.

He's not saying, "if a player is in the national team they are world class", as by that logic, there would be something like 400 world class centremids in the world. He's saying that if you are NOT in your national team, then you CAN'T be world class, as by definition there must be better players in your position.

Being in your national team does NOT prove that there is nobody better than you. But being left out of the national team DOES prove that there ARE better players (obviously assuming that the best team is picked, ignoring any managerial preferences etc).

Or to look at it another way, being left out of the Spain team means that there must be at least two better central midfielders in the world, and possibly more. Whereas being picked for Wales (or Spain, or Brazil, or anyone else) proves nothing on the world stage, as you aren't competing for places with players from other nationalities.
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Thank **** for Hangy!!

Mr rolleyes tends to miss the point of most discussions :rolleyes:
 
Bit harsh to say Arsenal have an inferior squad, I think it's taken much more of a battering than Chelsea or Man Utd's so far this season and they're level with Man Utd if they beat Bolton (game in hand), so it's hardly inferior. Being joint 2nd and 3 points behind the leader, that's pretty damn close, I can see why people are saying they're in the title race.
 
jakeke said:
Bit harsh to say Arsenal have an inferior squad, I think it's taken much more of a battering than Chelsea or Man Utd's so far this season and they're level with Man Utd if they beat Bolton (game in hand), so it's hardly inferior. Being joint 2nd and 3 points behind the leader, that's pretty damn close, I can see why people are saying they're in the title race.
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You are of course joking?

Rio - First choice centre half, out? Check
Evans - Rio's deputy and long term successor, out? Check
O'Shea - First choice Right Back, out? Check
Neville - Arguably second choice Right Back, out? Check
Rafael - Third choice Right Back, out? Check
Fabio - Second/Third choice Left Back, out? Check

Christ against Wolfsburg we even had Wes and Vidic out as well. All that is without mentioning VDS missing for the first dozen games of the season and the last half a dozen as well and then there's the long term injury for Hargreaves as well.

I dont think Arsenal even have that amount of players let alone be able to cope with them all being out at the same time
 
Clichy - First choice Left Back.
Gibbs - Clichy's deputy and long term successor.
Djourou - 3/4 Choice CB, Out for the Season, Check
RvP - First Choice Striker, out for most of the season, Check
Bendtner, Second Choice Striker, Check

Not to mention we where down to our 3rd choice goalkeeper aswell, who isn't very good... Or the long term injuries to Nasri, Denilson, Rosický, Walcott, (all fit now, bar Rosický)
 
What he said, Man Utd have a few defenders out right now, but over the last 2 or 3 months Arsenal have been injury ravaged every week. Only now is it starting to subside, and there's still a few extremely important names out.

Also, Denilson is out again btw.
 
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Gooner14 said:
Clichy - First choice Left Back.
Gibbs - Clichy's deputy and long term successor.
Djourou - 3/4 Choice CB, Out for the Season, Check
RvP - First Choice Striker, out for most of the season, Check
Bendtner, Second Choice Striker, Check

Not to mention we where down to our 3rd choice goalkeeper aswell, who isn't very good... Or the long term injuries to Nasri, Denilson, Rosický, Walcott, (all fit now, bar Rosický)
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In the past 3 weeks, we've had 12 injured players, and are still ahead of arsenal.
 
jakeke said:
What he said, Man Utd have a few defenders out right now, but over the last 2 or 3 months Arsenal have been injury ravaged every week. Only now is it starting to subside, and there's still a few extremely important names out.

Also, Denilson is out again btw.
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A few = 3, we've currently got 7 defenders out injured, the pair of you can be pedantic by naming 3rd choice centre backs that haven't even been needed but need I remind you that over the past couple of weeks we've also been without the likes of Berbatov and Park through injury as well but unlike you two I only felt the need to mention those that would have actually been relied upon

Any injuries Arsenal may have had this season have been spread throughout the squad all of Man Utd's have more or less came in the same area of the team ergo you lot have no leg to stand on when moaning about injuries
 
HangTime said:
We had 14 injured players.
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These are the current injuries that I could find on Arsenal.com

Long quote ahead. :)

Please note The injury news on Arsenal.com is updated only from Arsène Wenger's press conferences and his interviews with Arsenal TV Online. For clarification purposes, this is dated.

Emmanuel Eboue
December 15
Emmanuel Eboue is fit again after missing Arsenal's trip to Liverpool. "We have Eboue back in the squad [for the Burnley game]," said Wenger.


Denilson
December 15
Denilson has been ruled out of the Premier League clash against Burnley with a back injury "Denilson will not be available," said Arsène Wenger ahead of the trip. "He has a back problem. He should be available for Saturday [against Hull] but we still have to check that it's not a recurrence of his back problem."


Armand Traore
December 15
Armand Traore has been sidelined by the hamstring problem that forced him off in the closing stages at Anfield on Sunday and will miss the trip to Burnley.


Nicklas Bendtner
December 10
Nicklas underwent groin surgery in November and is likely to be out until January. "Let's say the New Year [for him]," said Wenger. "It is quite disappointing because he looked quite sharp and he was short from coming back into the squad."


Tomas Rosicky
December 10
Tomas Rosicky was substituted at half time of the 2-0 win over Stoke City. The midfielder will miss Sunday's trip to Anfield. "Rosicky will certainly miss the game," said Wenger.


Robin Van Persie
December 3
Robin was stretchered off during Holland's international friendly with Italy in Pescara on Saturday, November 14 with ankle ligament damage. Initial reports suggested he would be out for around six weeks. However a Club statement on November 28 changed that. It said: "Advice was sought from the leading ankle specialist Mr Niek van Dijk, who confirmed that more extensive damage had been suffered than was first diagnosed."
Robin underwent surgery to reconstruct the ligaments and Arsène Wenger was told it went well.
"I have not talked to Robin yet but there again the news I got from the surgery was it went very, very well," said the Arsenal manager. "There was a lot of disturbance on our side recently [about his injury] but the surgery went well."
He is expected to be out for four to five months.


Kieran Gibbs
December 3
Kieran has had surgery on an ankle injury sustained in the 2-0 win over Standard Liege and will be out for at least three months. According to Arsène Wenger, the surgery went well.
"Kieran is doing very well," said the Frenchman. "I had him on the phone and it [his ankle] looked to be completely fine."


Gael Clichy
November 23
Gael is expected to return to fitness within the next three weeks according to Arsène Wenger. "Clichy is not too far, I think two to three weeks," said the manager. The defender has a back injury.


Johan Djourou
November 9
Johan suffered a knee injury while on international duty in August and faces a lengthy lay-off. “Johan is [out for] six to eight months,” Wenger said. “He had big surgery, and it is a big blow for him and the Club. He will have to be patient this season.”
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So currently Arsenal have 6 long term injuries, 1 to their main striker, 1 to a backup striker who probably wouldn't be played ahead of Arshavin anyway, 1 to a midfielder who is hardly first choice these days, 1 to a defender who is about 4/5th choice and the only real problem area being the two left backs

Man Utd on the other hand have injuries to our 1st choice centre half, our 2nd choice centre half, our 3rd choice centre half, our first choice right back, our second choice right back, our third choice right back, one of our first choice midfielders and after tonight's game Vidic is now doubtful for the weekend game as well

I really dont think Arsenal fans can complain about being hard up on injuries
 
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