Soldato
Well in the poll on these very forums, RT came last in the list of requirements that were important when purchasing a new GPU.
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The benefits I see are for GPU manufacturers because if there is no raster fall back then that obsoletes the majority of the GPUs in service today and forces people to pay the already overpriced premiums for new hardware that they wouldn’t have originally required to continue playing new games.A gimmick even though it is in countless titles (and games are now providing no fallback to raster either and this will continue but yet still a "gimmick"......) and developers have all stated the benefits for them.....
Well in the poll on these very forums, RT came last in the list of requirements that were important when purchasing a new GPU.
The benefits I see are for GPU manufacturers because if there is no raster fall back then that obsoletes the majority of the GPUs in service today and forces people to pay the already overpriced premiums for new hardware that they wouldn’t have originally required to continue playing new games.
Objection, presumption.Majorty of gamers/gpus now support RT too btw
Objection, presumption.
Maybe we can have an updated poll to see how much 'gamers' care about it today?
edit - For instance I'm looking forward to playing Space Marine 2 later today, that looks fantastic and not an RT ray in sight! Give me a great game over RT gubbins any day...
edit - For instance I'm looking forward to playing Space Marine 2 later today, that looks fantastic and not an RT ray in sight! Give me a great game over RT gubbins any day...
Haha is it so hard to accept someone else's opinion? I'm a tech head, I have an eye for gfx, I like ray tracing. My nephew on the other hand doesn't even notice the difference most the time unless I show him what to look for.
DLSS quality vs native etc is different for different games. Sometimes it can look better others not. Much more apparent on a very large 4k screen.
Imo, ray tracing is nice and will make making games easier. However, it mostly isn't a night and day difference but again depending on game and scene. In a lot of games, I totally get why someone would prefer to turn off ray tracing for a bump in fps.
I played through Space Marine 2 over the weekend and it reinforced for me how much of an advance RT is on raster. While there are some good bits of visual design in the game, the lighting looks flat, bland and artificial throughout.
Bottom of the list of requirements though a lot of people cant keep RT out of their mouths of which many are some AMD card owners in denial over multiple threads trying to convince people they dont care for it.Well in the poll on these very forums, RT came last in the list of requirements that were important when purchasing a new GPU.
The non pro PS5/XBOX/Switch/Switch2 will still need to be developed for so I think most cards will be fine though a very similar and valid point was brought up many times during the VRAM debate and promptly discarded by certain people being disingenuous/trolling now are all for playing your way and adjusting settings regarding RT which again was another point regrading VRAM that was pushed aside.The benefits I see are for GPU manufacturers because if there is no raster fall back then that obsoletes the majority of the GPUs in service today and forces people to pay the already overpriced premiums for new hardware that they wouldn’t have originally required to continue playing new games.
Bottom of the list of requirements though a lot of people cant keep RT out of their mouths of which many are some AMD card owners in denial over multiple threads trying to convince people they dont care for it.
The non pro PS5/XBOX/Switch/Switch2 will still need to be developed for so I think most cards will be fine though a very similar and valid point was brought up many times during the VRAM debate and promptly discarded by certain people being disingenuous/trolling now are all for playing your way and adjusting settings regarding RT which again was another point regrading VRAM that was pushed aside.
Personally my take is, there is nothing wrong with the RT tech itself but as they somewhat touched upon the issue is the price point to get a decent experience, you basically need a 7900xt or 3080+ to really enjoy it and appreciate it and going forward when as shown, games start to use heavier RT, you ideally need a 4070ti super/4080+ so sadly, lots just won't use it, which is a valid view point of course, for me, as long as I can maintain ideally 70/80 fps, I'm good, although ideally do want to get 100+ fps, which is somewhat possible tbf with upscaling and frame gen, even on the 3+ year old 3080 with the exception of AW 2 and cp 2077 PT.
Not to be that guy..... but the biggest issue is there is a massive lack of knowledge and awareness on what RT actually is and what it sets out to achieve as well as who really benefits from it as well as just being outright oblivious to the advantages it offers over dated methods. The other problem is people who just look at something like BF 5, tomb raider and go "rt sucks!!!" and ignore every other game.
RT is primarily a way to benefit developers first and foremost, games are incredibly hard to make and in a world where cost cutting is more important than ever (particularly in the development/tech world), this is to aid them in being able to deliver quicker, remember that scene showing 4a enhanced workflow, 1 scene/frame for lighting, shadows etc. where it took them 30-50 minutes to get somewhat ok looking compared to the instantaneous setup of RT? That's an incredible amount of time and money saved there but obviously to get the most from this, developers will have to stop supporting raster methods too otherwise it is a duplicate effort in some ways (but alas with any new tech, there is also a learning curve). This will naturally happen over time where RT will be always on to some form and you won't even have a choice to disable it entirely as we are starting to see now, ps 5 being the main platform to showcase this (avatar is on all platforms and of course metro ee [although was more of a tech demo really]), this is also showing in the raster vs rt scenes where devs are basically putting no effort into raster to get it looking great and it is starting to become more evident.
The 2 main hurdles for RT advancement is the weak console hardware and devs still supporting raster, I think the biggest step in RT progress will come with the next gen consoles where next gen consoles will have better RT hardware support and probably use hardware mode for RT and the current gen consoles will fall back to more software based RT. IIRC, on steam, isn't it something like 70/80% of hardware has support for RT now?
I also think a large part of the hate/anti RT is also because nvidia have done a rather clever game with all their RTX marketing to make people think RT is a nvidia thing and naturally, when nvidia are first to something or leading the way, it gets hated on or rather it's not an important feature/advantage to have but then when/if amd catch up or overtake, it's the next best thing and vice versa to when amd are first and nvidia are catching up e.g. just look at the upscaling and frame gen situation.
Ultimately I think people just need to accept that raster is on its way out, majority of games coming out (since RT became a thing in the gaming scene) is only growing and growing, most game engines have RT built in now, UE 5 (which a lot of games are using going forward) uses software RT with support for hardware RT, console games are using RT and some are providing no option to disable it, amd, intel are all onboard with it too not to mention, chipset makers too.
I've had 4090s/4080s and various cards inc my current XTX, so at least I've had the experience to back up my opinionmany are some AMD card owners in denial over multiple threads trying to convince people they dont care for it.
I've nothing against a good RT implementation and it's certainly the future, just want a game to be a good game regardless.
I've had 4090s/4080s and various cards inc my current XTX, so at least I've had the experience to back up my opinion
I've nothing against a good RT implementation and it's certainly the future, just want a game to be a good game regardless.
If we're talking immersion, VR>RT. Even 3d vision was better than RT for immersion. I'd really like another go at 3d vision. Oled 3dtv is way better than the lcd displays and only needs passive glasses. The main blocker back in the day was games started to use many tricks by using 2d for a 3d effect, eg clouds smoke. Ray tracing would be much easier to work with.
Any game I played in 3d vision such as tomb raider, feels like a huge downgrade when the next gen ray traced version without 3d vision is released.
What this thread really shows is peoples priority's in gaming vary drastically depending on the type of gamer you are. Like myself who plays competitive Multiplayer in the main on PC so high visuals are not my priority. Jump to Nexus who plays SP high visual games and wants the best looking game at a playable frame rate for immersion. None of us are wrong it's just different priorities for what's needed to get the best experience.
Could try both, but vr really needs high res and fps so ray tracing isn't really a great option and dlss is very obvious in vr and noticeably loses sharpness.Why not have both?
It's like people who say HDR is better than RT, they are both completely different things, you can have both. I want to experience both HDR and RT.
Could try both, but vr really needs high res and fps so ray tracing isn't really a great option and dlss is very obvious in vr and noticeably loses sharpness.
I only mentioned around vr and 3d vision as I see them as far more immersive than raytracing and thought I'd throw it out there for the peeps who prefer immersion. Maybe something to try out.
I just wish there was so much strong advocacy for 3d vision back in the day, as there has been for ray tracing. Imo 3d vision was the best most immersive gfx I have experienced in gaming and I recently redid tomb raider and gutted to go back to pancake. This was on oled so didn't come with the ghosting or heavy battery glasses.