What do you think of the 4070Ti?

[hyperseven]

7900XT ? no, its not that type of design to hit 599 GBP. It (7900XT) was never designed to hit that type of price target, it was designed to take the chips that don't make the grade for the 7900XTX but the actual reference PCB card, bus and Vram specification puts in a tight spot bill-of-materials wise to cut retail price toe-to-toe with the 4070ti.

The problem is that the regular Joe's don't know what they are buying, they just see the Nvidia badge and DLSS 3.0 sprayed on a box.

The 4070ti design, allows it to be a cheap card.

Here is a near reference 4070ti PNY, it has 9+2 PCB phases (https://www.techpowerup.com/review/pny-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-oc/4.html). This is roughly in line with the PCB quality of the 2070 Super which, had a 256bit bus width and 8GB Vram.

The 4070ti has 12GB Vram with a 192bit bus that permanently cripples the card.



This is a reference 7900XT, look at the quality of the engineering in comparison to the PNY 4070ti, it has 14+3 phases with 70 amp rated components.

The 6800XT was 12+3, the 6900XT was 16+3, so its somewhere between the two in terms of PCB but the 7900XT has 20gb vram and 384-bit bus.



In terms of historical context, one of the best made cards I ever handled was an EVGA 1080 Classified, that card had 14+3 phases with a 256bit bus, it weighed a ton, had dual fans and cost 700 USD in 2016. That is about 750 GBP inc. Vat now. That is the level of engineering that the 7900XT reference PCB has.

Therefore, the 'real' price for the 7900XT reference is probably somewhere between 700-800 GBP inc Vat. The real price for the 4070ti reference should be in the 450-500 GBP range, maybe lower, they are just two different cards at an *engineering* level, regardless of what the graphs say. The 7900XT is just a class above the 4070ti.

Do you examine the PCB of all the products you are buying? I usually go off trusted reviews. Bet they have your face up as one to watch in Curry's

 

[Joxeon]

At a considerable risk. Always get a (reliable) warranty on expensive used hardware. Except for maybe CPUs, they seem pretty robust.

GPU failure rates are very low especially on cards that are just 2 years old so it's not a considerable risk.

 

[rumple9]

Do you examine the PCB of all the products you are buying? I usually go off trusted reviews. Bet they have your face up as one to watch in Curry's

7900XT ? no, its not that type of design to hit 599 GBP. It (7900XT) was never designed to hit that type of price target, it was designed to take the chips that don't make the grade for the 7900XTX but the actual reference PCB card, bus and Vram specification puts in a tight spot bill-of-materials wise to cut retail price toe-to-toe with the 4070ti.

The problem is that the regular Joe's don't know what they are buying, they just see the Nvidia badge and DLSS 3.0 sprayed on a box.

The 4070ti design, allows it to be a cheap card.

Here is a near reference 4070ti PNY, it has 9+2 PCB phases (https://www.techpowerup.com/review/pny-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-oc/4.html). This is roughly in line with the PCB quality of the 2070 Super which, had a 256bit bus width and 8GB Vram.

The 4070ti has 12GB Vram with a 192bit bus that permanently cripples the card.



This is a reference 7900XT, look at the quality of the engineering in comparison to the PNY 4070ti, it has 14+3 phases with 70 amp rated components.

The 6800XT was 12+3, the 6900XT was 16+3, so its somewhere between the two in terms of PCB but the 7900XT has 20gb vram and 384-bit bus.



In terms of historical context, one of the best made cards I ever handled was an EVGA 1080 Classified, that card had 14+3 phases with a 256bit bus, it weighed a ton, had dual fans and cost 700 USD in 2016. That is about 750 GBP inc. Vat now. That is the level of engineering that the 7900XT reference PCB has.

Therefore, the 'real' price for the 7900XT reference is probably somewhere between 700-800 GBP inc Vat. The real price for the 4070ti reference should be in the 450-500 GBP range, maybe lower, they are just two different cards at an *engineering* level, regardless of what the graphs say. The 7900XT is just a class above the 4070ti.

Despite all that high tech AMD precision engineering and top quality "military grade" components, the 4070ti performs better, with lower power draw, lower temps, lower noise, stable drivers, working coolers, better raytracing, DLSS 3, RTX Voice, Gsync, Nvidia Reflex low latency and broadcast streaming features all for a bill of materials costing £300 less. Well done Nvidia !

 

[rumple9]

You're in a similar boat to a lot of us...I'm on a 1060 6GB, wanting to upgrade the GPU and my display (no point without a new gpu) but I just can't bring myself to pay for the 4080 (good match to my 5950x) at over £1200+ when I could get (and I can afford it) a 4090 for £1600 with considerably more performance per £.

There is nothing inherently wrong with the 4070ti but the price is considerably out of whack for the 'level' of the card in the product stack, the 4080 is even worse 'value for money'..... they fit perfectly in nvidia's 'linear pricing' but we're gamers not crypto miners or scalpers and no 4080 should be over £1000 and the 4070ti should in no way cost £800+, or more accurately £900+

If it wasn't called a "4070ti", but was called "RTX 4000 widget" you would have bought it in a shot. Forget naming and die sizes and youtubers etc, if it meets your needs and you can comfortably afford it, buy it (the upgrade will be massive over what you have), otherwise stick with your 1060 or get a console

 

[Twinz]

If it wasn't called a "4070ti", but was called "RTX 4000 widget" you would have bought it in a shot. Forget naming and die sizes and youtubers etc, if it meets your needs and you can comfortably afford it, buy it (the upgrade will be massive over what you have), otherwise stick with your 1060 or get a console

At 4k, 800 Ada dollars are not meaningfully faster than 700 Ampere dollars.

 

[g67575]

GPU failure rates are very low especially on cards that are just 2 years old so it's not a considerable risk.

It is, because of cooler failure. I'd guess the risk is a bit lower with founders edition cards.

 

[g67575]

If it wasn't called a "4070ti", but was called "RTX 4000 widget" you would have bought it in a shot. Forget naming and die sizes and youtubers etc, if it meets your needs and you can comfortably afford it, buy it (the upgrade will be massive over what you have), otherwise stick with your 1060 or get a console

Exactly. The naming schemes don't really matter, they are just marketing. Whether or not it's worth an upgrade depends on what you have already.

As for playing at 1440p, I'd say both the RTX 4070 TI and RX 7900XT are a bit overkill - unless you want to play at 90-120 FPS.

Judging by techspot's review, both cards can play games at 4K 60 FPS, with the exception of a couple of games (e.g. Cyberpunk 2077) where you'd need to use DLSS or FSR2 to get smoother gameplay (or frame generation if support is patched in). In these 2 more challenging games, the 1% lows were higher on the 7900 XT (so in my opinion, it's a better card).

 

[Purgatory]

Here we go...

12GB is going to be the new 10GB in 2023

 

[g67575]

12GB is going to be the new 10GB in 2023

Do you ever think people just need to chill? Stop obsessing about VRAM amounts

For christ's sake, the 7900 XT has 20GB, which I'd say is overkill for 4K. If a game uses anything like that much, something has gone wrong...

No wonder the card is priced at £900, people will pay it for cards with huge VRAM capacities (and it pushes production costs up).

 

[g67575]

I wonder if we will see RTX 4070 (non TIs) within 2 or 3 months?

It does seem like quite an artificial thing to release the TI version first/ not at the same time.

I'd pay ~£600, considering used prices for RTX 3080s...

Do you reckon it will be priced at £700 instead?

 

[TNA]

You can certainly argue it's expensive and disappointing compared to a 3080 bought at launch 2 years ago and I wound't necessarily disagree. Though that card was basically impossible to buy at the RRP any time since it launched.

At the end of the day you can only judge it against what else you can buy just now on the market. Is there anything else for the £800 right now in 2023 which offers better value/performance/features for the money?

If we did that over the past couple of decades you would need a mortgage to buy a graphics card.

Price for performance has not improved and Nvidia are charging silly money for a card that should be no more than £499. It is as simple as that.

Your options are to buy used, skip a gen, buy a console or Jensen's personal favourite bend over.

Do you ever think people just need to chill? Stop obsessing about VRAM amounts

For christ's sake, the 7900 XT has 20GB, which I'd say is overkill for 4K. If a game uses anything like that much, something has gone wrong...

No wonder the card is priced at £900, people will pay it for cards with huge VRAM capacities (and it pushes production costs up).

Have you heard of e-peen bro? It's a real thing. The more vram, the bigger the e-peen

 

[Purgatory]

I wonder if we will see RTX 4070 (non TIs) within 2 or 3 months?

It does seem like quite an artificial thing to release the TI version first/ not at the same time.

I'd pay ~£600, considering used prices for RTX 3080s...

Do you reckon it will be priced at £700 instead?

Mate I'm starting to think you are going threw some GPU based breakdown. We all see what is happening, it's right there in black and white.

They have made 60ti class now 70ti class and really wanting £900-£1000 for it now, compared to £369 last gen.

So if they release a 4070 expect it to be about £75-£100 less than the msrp of a 4070ti, this is how Nvidia has always priced them compared to last gen 30 series.


If you have a decent card now, forget this generation and worry about something else, we all have more worries than gpus from companies that are out to scam us this time and pretend the world is full of roses right now for everyone, where reality is we are living in a world of thorns right now.

Honestly don't let all this become obsessive it's really not healthy. Let these companies play their games and it will backfire all this trust me, I am 50 years old this year and have been a tech nerd since I was in single figure age. This what they are doing now will not last and will horribly backfire on these companies, as we said in this thread if you need to replace a broken item or have no item and you need it sadly you have to suck it up and buy then new or used to allow you to do what you need.

 

[g67575]

Mate I'm starting to think you are going threw some GPU based breakdown. We all see what is happening, it's right there in black and white.

Ok Doc, thanks that's very specific

I've got a Vega 64 as stopgap, it's OK I guess.

Honestly, if the RTX 4070 is £700 I'll probably skip it, and I think you are probably right about the price.

 

[TNA]

Ok Doc, thanks that's very specific

Listen to him, he speaks from personal experience

 

[g67575]

I've got a confession to make, I hate buying old tech, and that is how they get you

 

[Purgatory]

Do you ever think people just need to chill? Stop obsessing about VRAM amounts

For christ's sake, the 7900 XT has 20GB, which I'd say is overkill for 4K. If a game uses anything like that much, something has gone wrong...

No wonder the card is priced at £900, people will pay it for cards with huge VRAM capacities (and it pushes production costs up).

The whole VRAM thing was 50/50 a joke and showing how Nvidia does planned obsolescence for their previous generations. A lesson many are not aware of and many should be made aware of.

One thing that is great in pc gaming is settings menus, simple fix to any VRAM issue in gaming is turn settings down and enjoy.

Problem for VRAM comes for people that use the cards for work where they need the VRAM and without it can't do their work, there is no magic setting to turn down then to allow you to use it, only option is to send the work to system RAM too then and this all slows down the work as the VRAM and system RAM is swapping all the time.

Anyone with a 3060 and up is good this generation on the resolution they are currently using and anyone that wants to go higher screen resolution may need to rethink their gpu and again depends what they have currently.

VRAM increases slowed down a lot thanks to Nvidia, just look at system RAM how that keeps going up for certain tasks, GPUS have been pretty slow to catch up in the last few generations and has only really got to a sensible level this generation for many of the cards and even then we should have been on more on the lower end cards as 8GB is coming to an end even for 1080p/1440p for some games in the near future. But we have to wait and see as game devs may turn round and say we will keep the VRAM limits low as the consumer base they target has these specs, it's all about what is being used in the wild and what the devs will target, as we have seen the devs will not be targetting 24GB and when they do they are extreme settings and when you really look at some of these ultra settings you can't even really tell a difference in many cases and only tell that your fps has dropped and the game may feel laggy.

Most devs remember are targetting console levels, so have a pc that is ps5 level of performance and you really are fine, once new consoles come out again then give them 2 years to make games for them and then time to update the pc to that level of performance again for gaming. For work depends on your work and what you do on the pc and sadly my work never has enough gpu,cpu or system power and never will as every step we get better hardware we are already two steps back and needed that 5 years before in some cases, so we are always looking at our systems to be lacking and we don't have the money or resources to be building huge data centres or renting out these systems all the time as the renting out of these systems in a week is scary money sometimes to the point we could have updated all our hardware in the office many times over.

Gaming think of it as what the consoles are using and try to have that level or higher if you want a little better performance and eye candy. The game is the same game and plays the same and same story and so on, enjoy the game and i know with pc gaming the hardware stuff is part of the addiction too and what makes it all enjoyable. BUT times like we are living in now we need to be realistic even if we have the spare cash as we don't know what tomorrow will bring with this current mess we are all in.

 

[brostradamus]

7900XT ? no, its not that type of design to hit 599 GBP. It (7900XT) was never designed to hit that type of price target, it was designed to take the chips that don't make the grade for the 7900XTX but the actual reference PCB card, bus and Vram specification puts in a tight spot bill-of-materials wise to cut retail price toe-to-toe with the 4070ti.

The problem is that the regular Joe's don't know what they are buying, they just see the Nvidia badge and DLSS 3.0 sprayed on a box.

The 4070ti design, allows it to be a cheap card.

Here is a near reference 4070ti PNY, it has 9+2 PCB phases (https://www.techpowerup.com/review/pny-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-oc/4.html). This is roughly in line with the PCB quality of the 2070 Super which, had a 256bit bus width and 8GB Vram.

The 4070ti has 12GB Vram with a 192bit bus that permanently cripples the card.



This is a reference 7900XT, look at the quality of the engineering in comparison to the PNY 4070ti, it has 14+3 phases with 70 amp rated components.

The 6800XT was 12+3, the 6900XT was 16+3, so its somewhere between the two in terms of PCB but the 7900XT has 20gb vram and 384-bit bus.



In terms of historical context, one of the best made cards I ever handled was an EVGA 1080 Classified, that card had 14+3 phases with a 256bit bus, it weighed a ton, had dual fans and cost 700 USD in 2016. That is about 750 GBP inc. Vat now. That is the level of engineering that the 7900XT reference PCB has.

Therefore, the 'real' price for the 7900XT reference is probably somewhere between 700-800 GBP inc Vat. The real price for the 4070ti reference should be in the 450-500 GBP range, maybe lower, they are just two different cards at an *engineering* level, regardless of what the graphs say. The 7900XT is just a class above the 4070ti.

Lol that's some positive spin on what looks like an engineering (or product strategy) failure

 

[g67575]

I don't care about the tech stuff so much, just getting 60 FPS at the desired resolution.

 

[TNA]

Posts this:

I've got a confession to make, I hate buying old tech, and that is how they get you

Few minutes later posts this:

I don't care about the tech stuff so much, just getting 60 FPS at the desired resolution.

Erm..

 

[Rroff]

If it wasn't called a "4070ti", but was called "RTX 4000 widget" you would have bought it in a shot. Forget naming and die sizes and youtubers etc, if it meets your needs and you can comfortably afford it, buy it (the upgrade will be massive over what you have), otherwise stick with your 1060 or get a console

And this is how nVidia has got people paying £1000 for a x60 class GPU...