What do you think of the 4070Ti?

[SpellowHouse]

I think this is way worse than the 20 series.

I've never seen such a bad reaction from the reviewers and public alike.

 

[Besty]

Yeah, the 2080 Super launch stank but Nvidia gave us the 2070 Super Founders Edition and so nobody cared much about the 2080 Super launch, people just said 'meh'.

 

[kieran_read]

Luxuries are the first things to go when budgets are squeezed.

people with plenty of cash will buy cards like the 4090, buying anything under that means you're more budget conscious and typically looking for value for money which none of the new cards offer which is why sales have been poor.

I really like the way you phrased that nail on the head I think.

I was considering the 7900xtx before the reviews but like you said if I didn't have a budget I would just get the 4090. I bottled it in the end and I'm holding a bit longer.

It seems many people are doing what I am so I'm glad it at least appears to be universal with the exception of the odd few.

 

[brostradamus]

If NVIDIA wouldn't have gimped bandwidth on 4070 ti, 4080 could have been a real tough sell

Nvidia GeForce RTX 4070 Ti - De gedegradeerde 4080

De GeForce RTX 4070 Ti is de volgende toevoeging aan de RTX 40-serie. We bekijken de prestaties en zetten de kaart tegenover courante kaarten van Nvidia en AMD.

tweakers.net

 

[D.P.]

I personally don't consider GPUs to be luxury items, they are necessary for PC gaming as a hobby/interest so to not have them is effectively denying yourself access or going Retro

The problem is (as I see it) manufactures and the whole chain tbh shifting from gpus being a black box graphics accelerator to being a luxury consumer items like audiophile equipment, designer brands and bloody horse bridals with diamonds sewn in. Really what they are playing on is PC Gamers interest, passion (addiction?) in order to squeeze the most they can whilst using marketing and PR as the mechanism for making you think its fine.

Once upon a time you had choice among retail products you had the King Pin extreme, the RGB clown editions but you also had practical alternatives that came with tighter margins. Now you have the same three options we've always had do nothing, buy 2nd hand or pony up but they are all less attractive than they were. Even the price insensitive consumer is losing out because they get less (with more of their $$$ going into profit margins) and stagnation in software as the top end becomes ever more niche.

The market has shifted into blatant exploitation now, Nvidia and AMD want maximum $$$ for their investors and they don't care how they get it.

What would really shift the balance is if gamers started buying shares and used their shear numbers to out weigh other investor groups to pursue a more consumer friendly policies, to build growth on growing gaming rather than extracting more from the current market.

I have highlighted the relevant text, except this is nothing new - they have always acted this way even if they have sometimes used PR to pretend otherwise. This is capitalism. Corporations are quite happy to go as far as killing their customers (e.g. big tobacco) in the hunt for shareholder profits.

 

[humbug]

Also, I wonder if the next card AMD launches will be the 7800 XT?

This card might actually have a reasonable MSRP, if the RX 6800 XT's MSRP was anything to go by.

Rumour is it has 3840 shaders and a 256Bit bus, compare that with the 7900XT which has 5376 shaders and a 320Bit bus, it is 27% faster than the 6800XT, that 7900XT has 40% more shaders than the 7800XT.

TPU put the RX 6800 at 96%, the RX 7800XT at 100% and the 6800XT at 106%, that's about right, so slower than its name sake replacement. given the 6800XT was $650 the 7800XT should be no more than $550, at that its worth buying.

AMD Radeon RX 7800 XT Specs

AMD Navi 32, 2430 MHz, 3840 Cores, 240 TMUs, 96 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 2438 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Besty]

If NVIDIA wouldn't have gimped bandwidth on 4070 ti, 4080 could have been a real tough sell

Nvidia GeForce RTX 4070 Ti - De gedegradeerde 4080

De GeForce RTX 4070 Ti is de volgende toevoeging aan de RTX 40-serie. We bekijken de prestaties en zetten de kaart tegenover courante kaarten van Nvidia en AMD.

tweakers.net

Look at those 4070ti frame-time spikes in Warhammer 3 4k.

Slower than a 6800XT and a 3070ti

Why? Bus speed. 7900XT is flexing its bus speed when its at the limit.

 

[g67575]

Look at those 4070ti frame-time spikes in Warhammer 3 4k.

Interesting. I'll probably give that card a miss then (couldn't afford it anyways).

It's a very GPU intensive game (and they abandoned support for DX12), so an interesting test.

Huge gap in-between the RTX 4080 and RTX 4070 TI.

The RTX 4090 is the only card that really shines there.

 

[lovelyhead]

Rumour is it has 3840 shaders and a 256Bit bus, compare that with the 7900XT which has 5376 shaders and a 320Bit bus, it is 27% faster than the 6800XT, that 7900XT has 40% more shaders than the 7800XT.

TPU put the RX 6800 at 96%, the RX 7800XT at 100% and the 6800XT at 106%, that's about right, so slower than its name sake replacement. given the 6800XT was $650 the 7800XT should be no more than $550, at that its worth buying.

AMD Radeon RX 7800 XT Specs

AMD Navi 32, 2430 MHz, 3840 Cores, 240 TMUs, 96 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 2438 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

Surely they wouldn't release a 7800XT that is barely faster than a 6800XT? Then again, surely Nvidia wouldn't try and sell a 4060ti as a 4080 yet here we are! Crazy times! AMD also have form on rebadging cards that are basically the same performance i.e. the 290X, 480 and 580.

I hope the 7800XT will offer the same performance as a 6900XT for £600. I expect it will be £749 though.

 

[Besty]

4070ti has 504gb/sec bandwidth on a 192-bit bus
3070ti has 608gb/sec bandwidth on a 256-bit bus
4080 has 735gb/sec bandwidth on a 256-bit bus
7900xt has 800gb/sec bandwidth on a 320-bit bus
4090 has a 1TB/sec bandwidth on a 384-bit bus.

@lovelyhead I think you are right, I think the bus speed bump should put it (the 7800XT) between a 6900XT and a 3090FE

 

[Sopp]

4070ti has 504gb/sec bandwidth on a 192-bit bus
3070ti has 608gb/sec bandwidth on a 256-bit bus
4080 has 735gb/sec bandwidth on a 256-bit bus
7900xt has 800gb/sec bandwidth on a 320-bit bus
4090 has a 1TB/sec bandwidth on a 384-bit bus.

Are there some "hidden" metrics that this lower bandwidth negatively impacts, that the typical fps charts don't show?

Take for example the 3070ti, most of the benchmarks show that the 4070ti 1% lows are higher than the average 3070ti frames (1440p). This would suggest that the lower bandwidth has little impact compared to the other attributes (e.g. clock speed and capacity), at least for sub 4k resolutions. Is that a correct assessment?

 

[Joxeon]

Surely they wouldn't release a 7800XT that is slower than a 6800XT

AMD has form in that department, check out the 6500XT vs 5500XT.

 

[brostradamus]

i think nvidia lost a huge opportunity at market segmentation, but ofcourse since they had to launch the product with limited information and its easy to make such commentary in hindsight but they could have maximized sales and (perhaps profits too) with the following revised positioning:
1. the 4080 should have been named the 4080 ti instead maybe launched at -$100
2. the 4070 ti could have been bumped into a 4080 tier instead with a more broader bus at 849
3. the 4070 ti would have then been a further gimped version of the actual 4070 ti that we have now, and maybe launch that at 649-699

theres no shame if your 4080 is actually being defeated by a 7900 class gpu and then you are still selling it lower and it consumes less energy

 

[Joxeon]

i think nvidia lost a huge opportunity at market segmentation, but ofcourse since they had to launch the product with limited information and its easy to make such commentary in hindsight but they could have maximized sales and (perhaps profits too) with the following revised positioning:
1. the 4080 should have been named the 4080 ti instead maybe launched at -$100
2. the 4070 ti could have been bumped into a 4080 tier instead with a more broader bus at 849
3. the 4070 ti would have then been a further gimped version of the actual 4070 ti that we have now, and maybe launch that at 649-699

theres no shame if your 4080 is actually being defeated by a 7900 class gpu and then you are still selling it lower and it consumes less energy

No ones going to pay £850 for a 4080 with 12gb ram on a 192 bit bus though which is less than 20% faster than a £649 3080 from 2 years ago despite whatever they call it.

What I think Nvidia should have done is.
1 Released a 4080ti for £1200 on an AD102 which is 10-15% slower than a 4090
2 Released the AD103 4080 for 850
3 Released the 104 4070ti for 650

 

[Marine-RX179]

What I think Nvidia should have done is.
1 Released a 4080ti for £1200 on an AD102 which is 10-15% slower than a 4090
2 Released the AD103 4080 for 850
3 Released the 104 4070ti for 650

That make way too much sense from consumer's prospective...hence why Nvidia have not done that

They want to forcefully pull the pricing upward against the norms or what's considered acceptable

 

[brostradamus]

No ones going to pay £850 for a 4080 with 12gb ram on a 192 bit bus though which is less than 20% faster than a £649 3080 from 2 years ago despite whatever they call it.

What I think Nvidia should have done is.
1 Released a 4080ti for £1200 on an AD102 which is 10-15% slower than a 4090
2 Released the AD103 4080 for 850
3 Released the 104 4070ti for 650

hmm, i was actually talking about increasing the 4070ti's bus to 4080s level and sell it as a 16gb card - this is what i proposed as the new 4080

i think people are paying for these cards and this is supposed to be a low volume environment, if they can get more 3080 owners to 4090 - they can still maintain the same level of revenue despite lower volumes..
the market reality being where things are actually priced, you would be leaving too much value on the table with your segmentation strategy

 

[Rroff]

Given the gaps between products I can only speculate nVidia plan to bring cards in between the existing ones - which would kill the prices on the existing ones especially second hand.

The 4080 realistically is a 4070 at best, the 4070ti is very distinctly what would traditionally have been a x60 class card.

 

[Joxeon]

hmm, i was actually talking about increasing the 4070ti's bus to 4080s level and sell it as a 16gb card - this is what i proposed as the new 4080

i think people are paying for these cards and this is supposed to be a low volume environment, if they can get more 3080 owners to 4090 - they can still maintain the same level of revenue despite lower volumes..
the market reality being where things are actually priced, you would be leaving too much value on the table with your segmentation strategy

That still wouldn't help much though since for £850 the performance isn't where it needs to be and upping the bus to 256 still isn't going to make up for the lack of cuda cores.

 

[Besty]

Are there some "hidden" metrics that this lower bandwidth negatively impacts, that the typical fps charts don't show?

Take for example the 3070ti, most of the benchmarks show that the 4070ti 1% lows are higher than the average 3070ti frames (1440p). This would suggest that the lower bandwidth has little impact compared to the other attributes (e.g. clock speed and capacity), at least for sub 4k resolutions. Is that a correct assessment?

correct, yes,

It's the frame-times at 4k under DX11, that's the metric that shows a problem in one game and maybe smaller problems in maybe two or three DX11 games tops that the FPS charts don't show. Unfortunately we lost the 'techreport' website long ago that used to focus on frame-times above pure FPS results.

Everyone knows Warhammer 3 is a dog but its also one of the biggest AAA PC games that actually requires a PC. Without looking at the charts I could tell you that Assassins Creed Odyssey (DX11) is probably also gimped at 4k as it is also a dog.

Elite Dangerous VR is up there too in sense of liking bandwidth, in the sense that it really benefits from low frame-times. There is not much data as to how the 4070ti performs in ED:VR. It probably runs great but someone's going to need to provide some data on that.

1440p is fine for the 4070ti, that's why almost all of the bigger review sites focused on 1440p performance deep-dives (Guru3d for example) and ignored 4k. I suspect this guidance (focus on 1440p) was in the NDA review notes from Nvidia.

At 4k, the vast majority of games will be fine too and the newer Vulkan, Unreal Engine 5 games will be less effected, you would hope. We only have Callisto Protocol and Red Dead 2 to go on. 'The Day Before' will be released on 1st March, it is an UE5 AAA title that should confirm what Callisto Protocol is showing us.

 

[humbug]

Surely they wouldn't release a 7800XT that is barely faster than a 6800XT? Then again, surely Nvidia wouldn't try and sell a 4060ti as a 4080 yet here we are! Crazy times! AMD also have form on rebadging cards that are basically the same performance i.e. the 290X, 480 and 580.

I hope the 7800XT will offer the same performance as a 6900XT for £600. I expect it will be £749 though.

When they designed it, perhaps they didn't think it would be, but unless they can fix that if those specifications are correct, it will be.