What do you think of the 4070Ti?

[Calin Banc]

Are we saying high-end GPUs are essential items then?
A basic human right?

Pretty sure homeless people are still existing in 1st world countries and people still die due to lack of money for proper treatments or problems within the healthcare system. No one will give you free food and shelter all year long as well. So yeah, "human rights", "essential items" seen as some primordial package you have by default vs. a graphics card seen as a luxury is an illusion. Maybe you'd call a GPU a non-essential (as in you don't die without one), but luxury?... right.

Graphics cards are just like any other product on the market (including food, shelter, etc). For sure some of us get angry when we have to pay more for them as in general, I'd say, you don't want to spent more for the things you need, not only because (although) you can afford them, but others won't. And that effects you as well. When it comes to games, power is in numbers (aka install base). No one who's paying these silly prices will buy a game 10x over just to have the same sells figures as it would if other people from the lower end would be in the market.

I don't want to pay more for food, housing, bills, etc. (essential like you'd call them), but the same goes for a graphics card, a clothing item, a book, a car (which can also be seen as "essentials") or whatever. Is my right as a customer to chase a lower price, to fight for it, just as a seller is trying to get me hooked on his product via marketing. Why on Earth, in good conscience, as a customer, I would bring arguments (at times quite silly), against my own interests? Playing the devil's advocate doesn't help.

So while nvidia and amd try to up the prices, we try to bring them down. And yes, this moaning helps (cry me a river, I know). Is the sentiment that someone who reads these forums walks away with and hopefully will postpone a buy and maybe talk some sense in other people. That's how it spreads. How else we would fight? Shrug our shoulders, say a "c'est la vie" and keep on walking until everything falls apart?

 

[decto]

One thing I'm kind of baffled by is people comparing products from 2 years ago to newly released cards, and saying "why are people complaining?"
I bought a TUF 3070 near launch for £580 (obvs a bit inflated over msrp, but has a beefy cooler).
The TUF 4070ti is, what, £850? So for 45% more money I get around 65% more performance?
Couldn't you get around 40% more performance 2 years ago with a 3080 for around £800, some people said 650?
The 3070 was 45% faster performance than a 2070 for the same MSRP. Why is it so much more?

I guess I'm In a lucky position to have a card I love for my usage, but this generation honestly doesn't make sense to me at these prices, when i would have upgraded to a 4080 which was inline with previous gen prices (maybe 100-200 higher). Luckily my new oled monitor has come, would much rather spend the money elsewhere.

EDIT No. Were from userbenchmarks
EDIT 2. Why are people also comparing it to a 3090ti, saying its half the price. Aren't xx90ti cards supposed to be very bad value as they are unparalleled in performance and stuff.

If you look at MSRP vs average FPS on Techspot, the 3070 and 4070Ti have approx the same cost per frame.
This is the first time, I am aware of where there is no significant increase in value when measured as cost per frame for generationally comparable 'mid' range cards.
In fact, the 4080 slipped significantly backwards in cost per frame.

If you want a measure of how broken the market is, there is ample stock of 30 series inventory and none of it is discounted below MSRP, in fact it all the cards I can see 3060, 3060TI, 3070, 3080 exceed MSRP.
Even 2 year old GPU's are selling with no warranty for close to the original MSRP.

This is not good for PC gaming in general, the increased pricing is not entirely the result of complexity, manufacturing cost, etc.
A significant part of the cost is just that the seller decided to make more signficantly more profit from a captive market.
Nvidia stated in their shareholder meeting they are aiming to drive average GPU selling price to double what it was pre covid....

My expectation is that this will lead to longer replacement cycles as fewer people are can or will pay the increased pricing as often, perhaps holding out for a third generation.
This will then knock into the second hand market, values should be higher but there will be less availability and of course no warranty so plenty of gamers spend large amounts of money on cards well into their life.

My view, give it six months for the dust to settle, these cards are new, lots of 30 series stock.
It may be a very different outlook in 6 months with AIB cards closer to MSRP and some deals / bundles to be had around the usual sale periods.

Meanwhile, if you need a GPU and accept the price... game on.
Buy a card, and play some games.
You don't need approval from this thread.

 

[charles foster]

If you look at MSRP vs average FPS on Techspot, the 3070 and 4070Ti have approx the same cost per frame.
This is the first time, I am aware of where there is no significant increase in value when measured as cost per frame for generationally comparable 'mid' range cards.
In fact, the 4080 slipped significantly backwards in cost per frame.

If you want a measure of how broken the market is, there is ample stock of 30 series inventory and none of it is discounted below MSRP, in fact it all the cards I can see 3060, 3060TI, 3070, 3080 exceed MSRP.
Even 2 year old GPU's are selling with no warranty for close to the original MSRP.

This is not good for PC gaming in general, the increased pricing is not entirely the result of complexity, manufacturing cost, etc.
A significant part of the cost is just that the seller decided to make more signficantly more profit from a captive market.
Nvidia stated in their shareholder meeting they are aiming to drive average GPU selling price to double what it was pre covid....

My expectation is that this will lead to longer replacement cycles as fewer people are can or will pay the increased pricing as often, perhaps holding out for a third generation.
This will then knock into the second hand market, values should be higher but there will be less availability and of course no warranty so plenty of gamers spend large amounts of money on cards well into their life.

My view, give it six months for the dust to settle, these cards are new, lots of 30 series stock.
It may be a very different outlook in 6 months with AIB cards closer to MSRP and some deals / bundles to be had around the usual sale periods.

Meanwhile, if you need a GPU and accept the price... game on.
Buy a card, and play some games.
You don't need approval from this thread.

Well put! I actually didn't realise that info from techspot, my numbers were from userbenchmark. That's crazy though! It is just want more pay more...is this going to carry on forever? 50 series will be the same value, just more expensive? Dang.

I agree with you that people won't replace their cards. I have a friend who had something like a 1070ti, was waiting for 30 series but wasn't willing to pay the crypto prices. Then he held out so long that he said he was going to wait for the 40 series, but got a 2080 for £240 just in case the launch was a **** show...and well... guess he was vindicated. Ps5 all the way at these prices.

 

[lovelyhead]

Would you even notice the jump from a 3080 at 140fps to 4070ti 165fps with gsync enabled without an fps counter on?

I highly doubt you would. I can see the rational for upgrading from a 3080 to a 4070ti if you were getting sub 60FPS and the 4070ti gets you above 60FPS but 140fps to 165fps will make next to no difference to your gaming experience unless you are some sort of pro esports player.

 

[Darujhistan]

Are we saying high-end GPUs are essential items then?
A basic human right?

So are we saying that consumer items should be out of the reach of people who work for a living and we should all just be gratetful we're not starving to death?

What kind of idiot actively argues against his own interests and sides with corporations?

Oh that reminds me, this kind of idiot...

terrific race the romans

www.youtube.com

 

[K1LaW8tt5]

The cost of essential items (interest,rent, enrgy, food,clothes,school/college, medical bills etc) has increased dramatically over the last year or so. This sucks and it also means the average person will have less money to spend on tech hobbies....(unless they buy a GPU instead of paying rent). If you've never made any choices about spending money then you probably don't care what price these GPUS sell for anyway.

There is an entire industry that relies on people gaming on pc and continuing to spend small amounts of money on other hardware, games, peripherals, monitors,headphones etc in to game on pc. If nvidia/AMD want to price pc gaming beyond the average consumer then sales of everything else will drop too. Why would a developer put effort into a PC version, will they start to charge a few hundred for their PC games as well?

If your GPU was to break right now you can only side grade (or downgrade) for the same money as 2 or 3 years ago or fork out a minimum of £900 for a 4070ti. Both companies can F off.

 

[ScottMc]

No ones going to pay £850 for a 4080 with 12gb ram on a 192 bit bus though which is less than 20% faster than a £649 3080 from 2 years ago despite whatever they call it.

What I think Nvidia should have done is.
1 Released a 4080ti for £1200 on an AD102 which is 10-15% slower than a 4090
2 Released the AD103 4080 for 850
3 Released the 104 4070ti for 650

And then you would have had to lower the prices of the 30 series which they don't want.

 

[ScottMc]

Put your pitchforks down!!!!So.....why all the hate? i have purchaced a rtx4070 ti eagle for £815.00 , now i play games at 165hz high settings on a gysnc enabled monitor at 2560 x 1440 , so please explain to me what better options i have ???? rtx 3080 doesnt do it , cant get 165hz on high settings a rtx 3080 is £720 new .......so the rtx 4070ti only £95 more , further i get a score of 21000 on the rtx4070ti and only 16300 on a overclocked rtx3080 ................so which is the better card for my needs? ????

instead of jumping on the rtx4070ti hate brandwagon ....think for yourselves or listen to people who know what they are talking about!!! for example the experts at 3d guru.....been doing graphics card tests as long as ive been building them 25 years plus ...

To sum it all up, the GeForce RTX 4070 Ti provides a proper gaming experience. Comparing apples to apples, it sits (give or take) at 3090 Ti performance. And comparing apples to oranges, the closest comparative is the Radeon RX 6900/6950 XT and 7900 XT. The choice in-between 4070 Ti and 7900 XT is a complex one. The RTX offers better raytracing performance and adds the bonus of DLSS3. The 7900 XT, however, is a notch faster in the rasterizer engine backed by the additional L3 cache. The 12GB this card offers also is enough for the time being with most titles and the combination of Ultra HD. The ADA GPU architecture will cut through games with surgical precision and perform skillfully and competently. A good chunk of extra shader cores brings in nearly 1.5x raw shader performance and even faster Raytracing, and Tensor cores offer more performance. Underlying technologies like Shader Execution Reordering (SER) and DLSS 3.0 make the new product and Series 4000 shine. In closing, the GeForce RTX 4070 Ti impresses and will make you happy, but at a substantial cost. Despite the excellent perf per watt ratio, the energy consumption levels remain on the high side (relatively). What the PC Gaming market needs are more affordable graphics cards, and the 4070 Ti seems to be priced a notch too high, making people delay their upgrade. The market screams for reasonable performing sub-500 USD products.

The 3080 should have been reduced to around £500 and the 4070ti maybe £650. I would have held of or buy used , Buy what you want but don't cry if the 5080 is £1400.

 

[VortexA1]

No ones going to pay £850 for a 4080 with 12gb ram on a 192 bit bus though which is less than 20% faster than a £649 3080 from 2 years ago despite whatever they call it.

What I think Nvidia should have done is.
1 Released a 4080ti for £1200 on an AD102 which is 10-15% slower than a 4090
2 Released the AD103 4080 for 850
3 Released the 104 4070ti for 650

The fact is the 4070ti is faster than the 3080.

 

[VortexA1]

The 3080 should have been reduced to around £500 and the 4070ti maybe £650. I would have held of or buy used , Buy what you want but don't cry if the 5080 is £1400.

I don't think he will cry nor me or others . Maybe you?

 

[Twinz]

The fact is the 4070ti is faster than the 3080.

It's not faster-enough.

It's basically Ampere's value proposition, two years too late.

 

[muon]

No ones going to pay £850 for a 4080 with 12gb ram on a 192 bit bus though which is less than 20% faster than a £649 3080 from 2 years ago despite whatever they call it.

What I think Nvidia should have done is.
1 Released a 4080ti for £1200 on an AD102 which is 10-15% slower than a 4090
2 Released the AD103 4080 for 850
3 Released the 104 4070ti for 650

NVIDIA CEO Confirms RTX 40-series "Ada" Reveal in September, Launch Aimed at Not Cannibalizing "Ampere"

NVIDIA CEO Jen Hsun Huang, in his Q2 Fiscal-2023 Results call confirmed that the company's next-generation GeForce RTX 40-series graphics cards could be revealed at GTC Fall 2022, to be held next month in September. NVIDIA's launch of the RTX 40-series "Ada" will be unlike those of the previous...

www.techpowerup.com

Nvidia have other goals than just selling Ada right now. They deliberately overpriced.

 

[ScottMc]

35% more performance *for the same money* would have been a good generational uplift and enough of a difference to notice.

+20% for the same money wouldn't move the upgrade needle for me, but it would at least give me the impression that they were trying.

But < 20% improvement *and* they want an extra $100?

Um, no.

More like 2 years later and nearly £200 more for less than 15% improvement.

 

[Besty]

Put your pitchforks down!!!!So.....why all the hate? i have purchaced a rtx4070 ti eagle for £815.00

£815.00 Gigabyte 4070ti 12GB Eagle (pic from https://yujihw.com/)



£899.00 Sapphire/Gigabyte 7900XT 20GB Reference



Both cards need a price cut but its pretty clear where the value is.

 

[Jay85]

£815.00 Gigabyte 4070ti 12GB Eagle (pic from https://yujihw.com/)



£899.00 Sapphire/Gigabyte 7900XT 20GB Reference



Both cards need a price cut but its pretty clear where the value is.

One has defo not been eating their wheatabix

 

[Darujhistan]

One has defo not been eating their wheatabix

So £815 for a 40060ti, when the 3060ti was around £380...

 

[ScottMc]

I don't think he will cry nor me or others . Maybe you?

Nah I won't cry just not buy, I don't support corporate greed. I'm good for a while with the Series X, PS5 and 3080, I don't need to max everything out and they all look good on the OLED. If Nvidia and AMD keep inflating prices, I'll keep buying used, no problem.

 

[VortexA1]

Nah I won't cry just not buy, I don't support corporate greed. I'm good for a while with the Series X, PS5 and 3080, I don't need to max everything out and they all look good on the OLED. If Nvidia and AMD keep inflating prices, I'll keep buying used, no problem.

Fair do's mate

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

High-end? You do realise this is the 4070ti thread

You make a good point!

So are we saying that consumer items should be out of the reach of people who work for a living and we should all just be gratetful we're not starving to death?

What kind of idiot actively argues against his own interests and sides with corporations?

Oh that reminds me, this kind of idiot...

terrific race the romans

www.youtube.com

I guess it depends what you consider makes something essential. Is there something in-between essential and luxury and if so are we entitled to them because we work?
Should Ferraris be out of reach of people that work for a living? a Rolex? a big ol' house?

I'd love it if all us working folks could own a Ferrari, a nice house and a decent gaming PC (I'm not overly bother about a Rolex, but sure that'd be nice too for those that want one). But I don't feel that I'm entitled to them just because I work.

It does seem like it would be in their best interest to price GPUs so that more people can afford them, but I'm not an economist so what do I know. It just makes me laugh the way people seem to think they're entitled to a graphics card of a certain level.

I do understand why people are upset though. I think we expect prices to go up a bit each generation and I doubt anyone would get too annoyed at a small increase each time (above inflation) but the generation has been a huge jump. I'm sure even the people that bought a 4090/7900XTX/etc. without thinking too much about it would've preferred the cards to be cheaper too.
It also doesn't bode well for the future, but it has been going this way for years and years. Going back to the first Geforce and Radeon cards or even before. If we as consumers were going to take a stand we should probably have done it long before the RTX 4000 series and RX 7000 series, but we went along with it. I did too, I bought the AMD 5000 series cards, the Nvidia 500 series cards and 600 series cards and the AMD HD 7900 cards and a bunch of the cards after that too.

 

[muon]

£815.00 Gigabyte 4070ti 12GB Eagle (pic from https://yujihw.com/)



£899.00 Sapphire/Gigabyte 7900XT 20GB Reference



Both cards need a price cut but its pretty clear where the value is.

And yet the more expensive (in more than one way) is only a bit better (4-8%) and more power hungry.

https://static.techspot.com/articles-info/2601/bench/1440p.png
https://static.techspot.com/articles-info/2601/bench/4K.png
https://static.techspot.com/articles-info/2601/bench/Power_Locked.png