Nvidia are killing it in this respect, they are so far in front it's crazy.
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Soldato
Ah crap, prepare for the witch hunt. Saying stuff like that with make half the forum attack you personally...
That’s because it’s not really true.
The 4090 is ahead of everything - but otherwise the XTX is very competitive with the 4080 and the XT is extremely competitive with the 4070Ti.
The idea they are ‘so far in front it’s crazy’ only really works with the 4090. Otherwise, it doesn’t matter if the specs of the 4070Ti are more akin to a 4060 - it’s still released as a 4070Ti and priced in a way that it competes against an XT. And at that price point I would rather buy an XT. Even the RT performance of the XT is very competitive.
The 4090 is ahead of everything - but otherwise the XTX is very competitive with the 4080 and the XT is extremely competitive with the 4070Ti.
The idea they are ‘so far in front it’s crazy’ only really works with the 4090. Otherwise, it doesn’t matter if the specs of the 4070Ti are more akin to a 4060 - it’s still released as a 4070Ti and priced in a way that it competes against an XT. And at that price point I would rather buy an XT. Even the RT performance of the XT is very competitive.
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Soldato
The RT performance is close when looking at games that don't make much use of it, like FC6 and SOTR. When games do, the difference kinda skyrockets, up to 33%. I would also buy the XT if I didn't care about RT and the price was 50-100€ cheaper than the 4070ti, but seeing how it's actually 100€ more expensive, that's a no go
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I think the 4070 Ti is a great card. For about half the price they're trying to punt it!
Arguments about whether it's 'really' a 60 series aside, it's sold as a 70Ti series, so we have a launch price (in inflation-adjusted 2023 pounds) history of -
£563 - 1070Ti
£638 - 2070S (I'm counting this one as a Ti...)
£648 - 3070Ti
£799 - 4070Ti
That's a big jump this generation, even taking inflation into account.
And that's before we factor in that back in the Pascal and Turing days that MSRP wasn't the cheapest, the AIBs used to be able to make fancy high-end models and then also put out some basic models that were actually under the FE price/Base MSRP, *and* you could buy them at the advertised prices unlike the 3xxx series...
If they took it back to £650, I don't think I'd be complaining too much. If they took it back to (inflation-adjusted) Pascal pricing, I think we'd all probably be quite happy....
Arguments about whether it's 'really' a 60 series aside, it's sold as a 70Ti series, so we have a launch price (in inflation-adjusted 2023 pounds) history of -
£563 - 1070Ti
£638 - 2070S (I'm counting this one as a Ti...)
£648 - 3070Ti
£799 - 4070Ti
That's a big jump this generation, even taking inflation into account.
And that's before we factor in that back in the Pascal and Turing days that MSRP wasn't the cheapest, the AIBs used to be able to make fancy high-end models and then also put out some basic models that were actually under the FE price/Base MSRP, *and* you could buy them at the advertised prices unlike the 3xxx series...
If they took it back to £650, I don't think I'd be complaining too much. If they took it back to (inflation-adjusted) Pascal pricing, I think we'd all probably be quite happy....
I still think it’s the better card even just for the vram difference, I mean it’s not a small amount 12>20 is a big jump and guarantees quite a bit more longevity IMO.
The efficiency of the 4070Ti is good, but that’s because it’s such a cut down chip. I just don’t think I could spend that kind of money on a card with 12GB this generation.
I think going MCM has clearly failed for AMD and I currently can't see any benefits in costs or performance scaling, it's a shame for us consumers as we need stronger competition from AMD to keep nvidia in check.
Soldato
I don't think vram guarantees anything. 3 years in the future, let's assume you have vram issues, you turn down textures 1 click. Problem solved.
Soldato
And the thing is, AMD released their XT first. Had they gone for a reasonable price, (let's say, 699), then nvidia would be forced to launch accordingly.
I don’t really get this - it’s failed for consumers admittedly if people were expecting them to undercut Nvidia but how has it failed for AMD? The whole purpose of it was about helping to lower manufacturing costs, from that angle why has it failed for AMD? I would imagine it’s probably working just as they expected.
I also don’t get these comments about failure when the XTX and XT are both broadly competitive. In plenty of instances they are way more competitive than AMD has been for generations. It’s like people are reading different reviews than me.
AMD set the price based on the $900 nvidia wanted for the 4080 12gb though.
Soldato
I think they are the worst competing cards ive ever seen from amd. Indeed feels like we are reading different reviews.
The xt is 12% more expensive, offers similar raster per dollar, up to 30% behind in RT, consumes around 20% more power, has some issues with power draw with multi monitors, video playback etc, users report issues with hdr content, and has way less features.
If it was around 50 to 100 euro cheaper than the 70ti then sure, it would be an option, but right now I cant fathom why would anyone choose this over the 70ti. The XTX is in a better position against the 4080, but its still a very niche use case. Yes if you dont care at all about rt, the xtx is a marginally better option than the 4080, but who's paying that much for a gpu and doesnt care about rt?
Has it lowered manufacting costs though? It now takes AMD over a 300mm compute die and 6 37.5mm cache chiplets to compete with Nvidias 295mm monolithic die which is probably also much cheaper to make.
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That's not really "solved" though is it? Because you had to turn the textures down.
In the context of "more vram means more longevity", that's the start of your longevity failing. All else being equal then VRAM can make for a longer-lived card.
All else being equal is the key, of course.
Worst competing cards ever from AMD but if it were 50 EUR less it would be a consideration? Lol wat. That’s a ridiculous statement. You’ve obviously not been around long if you think these are the worst competing cards from AMD ‘ever’ when the reality is they haven’t had a product this strong in years.
The XT may be more expensive but it also has nearly double the vram. Way less features? How? AMD has broadly their own competing feature set.
Only AMD knows, which is why the idea it’s a ‘failure’ in that respect is totally unfounded. Unless someone has some inside information.
Soldato
Well, its still a theoretical scenario of course, but id much rather turn textures down 1 click then turn rt off for example, which is what the xt will require in a heavy rt game
Soldato
I didnt say 50 euros less, i said 50 to 100 euros less than the 4070ti. Seeing how the XT is currently around 100 euros more expensive, that's a swing for 150 to 200 euros. Yes that's a huge gap, isnt it?
It may well fit your 'BILL' however when someone asks other what they think of the 4070Ti most people would assume, correctly IMO, that the person is asking about performance in the price range of said GPU so that rules out your spurious 3090 for £1300.
As has been repeatedly said in this thread if you have no choice the 4070Ti is a fine product but it's bad value for money like all GPU's are currently, that if you must buy a GPU now and you're spending £800 (more like £900 going on current pricing) then depending on requirements the 7900XT maybe worth considering. Having said that if you're upgrading from anything released in the last 6 years odd you're not gaining much because all you're doing is spending 1% more money for 1% more performance.
It offers RT performance around that of a 3080 worst case, in many instances it’s better. I don think that level of performance constitutes having to turn off RT…
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