What do you think of the 4070Ti?

[Bencher]

It offers RT performance around that of a 3080 worst case, in many instances it’s better. I don think that level of performance constitutes having to turn off RT…

Well what do you mean worst case? In anything that has heavy rt, performance plummets for the xt. If you try to meaure in full path tracing, meaning purely rt peformance, its around 10% slower than the 3080, while the 4070ti is 60% faster. The difference is pretty bonkers

 

[rare]

Well what do you mean worst case? In anything that has heavy rt, performance plummets for the xt. If you try to meaure in full path tracing, meaning purely rt peformance, its around 10% slower than the 3080, while the 4070ti is 60% faster. The difference is pretty bonkers

What games are using full path ray tracing outside of benchmarks though. In that situation the difference between a 3080 and a XT is minimal, for example going from 47 to 43fps hardly makes it unplayable. That’s worst case. The XT still performs adequately. In port royale the XT and 4070ti are neck and neck.

We could debate the specific plus/minus of each card and their competing technologies and feature set all day but the idea these are ‘the worst competing cards from AMD ever’ is just ridiculous when they are highly competitive in both RT and Rasta and compared to the 70ti/80 the XT/XTX have considerably more vram.

MSI GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Gaming X TRIO review (Page 24)

MSI has stepped up with their Gaming X TRIO GeForce RTX 4070 Ti. It is factory-tweaked (slightly) but looks great. It comes with whisper-quiet cooling, and is quite impressive in all respects....

www.guru3d.com

 

[Bencher]

What games are using full path ray tracing outside of benchmarks though. In that situation the difference between a 3080 and a XT is minimal, for example going from 47 to 43fps hardly makes it unplayable. That’s worst case. The XT still performs adequately. In port royale the XT and 4070ti are neck and neck.

We could debate the specific plus/minus of each card and their competing technologies and feature set all day but the idea these are ‘the worst competing cards from AMD ever’ is just ridiculous when they are highly competitive in both RT and Rasta and compared to the 70ti/80 the XT/XTX have considerably more vram.

MSI GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Gaming X TRIO review (Page 24)

MSI has stepped up with their Gaming X TRIO GeForce RTX 4070 Ti. It is factory-tweaked (slightly) but looks great. It comes with whisper-quiet cooling, and is quite impressive in all respects....

www.guru3d.com

Yes the difference between a 3080 and xt is minimal, but xts competition is the 4070ti, and the difference is holycrap huge. Since more ram is going to play a bigger role in the future, so will that huge gap in rt performnace. At least i assume future games will make use of more rt than current ones, right?

 

[Purgatory]

They won't be moving out of Taiwan I read somewhere they will expand to other countries but keep all their latest tech in Taiwan, can't remember where but it was a recent news event about TSMC. Prices are going up soon not because of new manufacturing process only but because demand has dropped and their expansion plans to reduce risk in Taiwan due to China as we all know. I have a bad feeling 2023 is heading down a very dark path and everyone in every industry is about to suffer more.


TSMC is being hit by things like this right now too :-

Qualcomm and MediaTek might not release 3 nm SoCs this year due to high TSMC costs, insider sources claim

Apple is aiming to be the first to release 3 nm mobile processors later this year, despite the high production costs imposed by TSMC. Other SoC producers such as Qualcomm and MediaTek have not yet confirmed any 3 nm products for this year, and insider sources suggest that the increased...

www.notebookcheck.net

Customers refusing to pay the price of 3nm.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1613351071472320515

 

[Wing-Man]

What do you think about the 4070Ti?

you mean the 4080... that was a cheap as it could be....
but a little rebranding dropped the price by £150

that right there is enuf for me to buy AMD on my next upgrade, AMD as also on crack right now with pricing but not as much as Nvidia

 

[ICDP]

Has it lowered manufacting costs though? It now takes AMD over a 300mm compute die and 6 37.5mm cache chiplets to compete with Nvidias 295mm monolithic die which is probably also much cheaper to make.

Chip - Die Size
4070Ti - 295 (ADA 104)
4080 - 379 (ADA 103)
7900 XT - 300 GCD/220 MCD (Navi 31)
7900 XTX - 300 GCD/220 MCD (Navi 31)

So the 7900 XT is simply a full size Navi 31 with some parts disabled and had it been a seperate chip like the Nvidia counterparts, it would have been a lot smaller. The MCD is on a lower node, not ony to reduce costs but to give more flexability for increasing the GCD size. So comparing die sizes now is not an exact like for like comparison. Having said that the 7900 XT compares very favourably with the 4070Ti and IMHO is a better all round GPU. Similarly the 7900 XT is competing very well with the 4080.

This is ignoring the obvious joke pricing.

 

[NZXT30]

Well what do you mean worst case? In anything that has heavy rt, performance plummets for the xt. If you try to meaure in full path tracing, meaning purely rt peformance, its around 10% slower than the 3080, while the 4070ti is 60% faster. The difference is pretty bonkers

Wrong. The best RT implementation we have so far is Fortnite with it's Unreal Engine 5.1 and AMD performs just as good as Nvidia there. The future dominance of that engine seems to be off the charts with every noticeable project switching to it.

The constant PR onslaught Nvidia and their fans have been doing for years regarding RT has all been for nought. What a collosal waste of time and energy.

 

[Haz123]

I don't think vram guarantees anything. 3 years in the future, let's assume you have vram issues, you turn down textures 1 click. Problem solved.

Turning down textures is the biggest single image quality sacrifice you can make. Glad you are happy with your games looking like hot garbage.

12gb is just not enough in a lot of cases but of course you can turn down setting to cope with this basic lack of vram.

There will be a prices cuts in the future but not until AMD/NV have released the full product stack including the 7600 and 4060. They are manipulating the market to keep prices high so they can slot in these volume selling products at an infatled price and maximise profits.

All of these top end cards deliver good performance but the price is a rip off.

 

[Bill Turnip]

Turning down textures is the biggest single image quality sacrifice you can make. Glad you are happy with your games looking like hot garbage.

Hot garbage? Bit of hyperbole there, 8gb of vram is definitely sufficient to get good looking textures.. There's also other options you can tweak, but going from ultra to high (or even medium or low) in game texture can be preferable in a lot of cases to spending actual hundreds of real pounds.

 

[SpellowHouse]

Hot garbage? Bit of hyperbole there, 8gb of vram is definitely sufficient to get good looking textures.. There's also other options you can tweak, but going from ultra to high (or even medium or low) in game texture can be preferable in a lot of cases to spending actual hundreds of real pounds.

Maybe but I do tend to agree that when you are spending £1000 on a graphics card you don't want to sit there tweaking to get it to work well.

 

[Haz123]

Hot garbage? Bit of hyperbole there, 8gb of vram is definitely sufficient to get good looking textures..

Yeah you are right its a gpu discussion so hyperbole is mandatory isnt it ?

Good looking textures? Do we all not want the best textures. Since I played modded Skyrim I became addicted to super high res textures, 4k textures just look amazing and increase the visual quality of a game massively. Just because most games do not scale textures well does not mean you do not need a lot of vram for the amazing ones.

 

[Bencher]

Turning down textures is the biggest single image quality sacrifice you can make. Glad you are happy with your games looking like hot garbage.

12gb is just not enough in a lot of cases but of course you can turn down setting to cope with this basic lack of vram.

There will be a prices cuts in the future but not until AMD/NV have released the full product stack including the 7600 and 4060. They are manipulating the market to keep prices high so they can slot in these volume selling products at an infatled price and maximise profits.

All of these top end cards deliver good performance but the price is a rip off.

I send you 2.pictures, one ultra textures one high, will you be able to tell which one is which? Wanna bet on it?

 

[Haz123]

I send you 2.pictures, one ultra textures one high, will you be able to tell which one is which? Wanna bet on it?

Just because X game does a terrible job of scaling textures does not mean there are not amazing textures that increase visual fidelity to a massive degree.

The reason people are arguing with you is because you are deluded and will not accept that the 4070ti is not a perfect product. The 4090 is a perfect product and has the price to go with it ,no flaws with this products performance at all. The 4070ti has pretty much the same vram as a gpu from 5 years ago , times move on and it will be a limiting factor in a lot of cases.

The 4070ti is a better slab of silicon than the 7900xt, there I have said it and I am willing to make a concession. the Nv card has similar performance whilst using less power and it does cost less if you buy the right card. It does not make it perfect so open your eyes and see that it does have some flaws. If you want a gpu with no flaws then Nv has you covered with the 4090.

 

[Nexus18]

Wrong. The best RT implementation we have so far is Fortnite with it's Unreal Engine 5.1 and AMD performs just as good as Nvidia there. The future dominance of that engine seems to be off the charts with every noticeable project switching to it.

The constant PR onslaught Nvidia and their fans have been doing for years regarding RT has all been for nought. What a collosal waste of time and energy.

Not quite....

If the game is only using software RT mode then yes performance is pretty similar but once you enable hardware RT mode in fortnite, nvidia will pull ahead, especially if any of the graphical effects/features requiring hardware RT are enabled (which makes a big difference in IQ especially around reflections)

Also, nvidia have been working very closely with UE so if developers use their methods, amd won't see many optimisations for their hardware:

Building the Future of Real-Time Graphics with NVIDIA and Unreal Engine 5.1 | NVIDIA Technical Blog

Learn about the Unreal Engine 5.1 release, including next-generation RTX lighting and speed increases to help you keep pace with rigorous development cycles.

developer.nvidia.com

NVIDIA RTX Branch (NvRTX)

Shortens development cycles and creates more stunning visuals.

developer.nvidia.com

I don't think vram guarantees anything. 3 years in the future, let's assume you have vram issues, you turn down textures 1 click. Problem solved.

Funny thing is you don't even need to, just enable FSR/DLSS as you'll be lacking grunt anyway in most games for high refresh 4k gaming, which reduces vram usage Problem solved.




Either way I still wouldn't touch the 7900xt or 70ti with a barge pole, stump up and go 7900xtx or 4080 or better yet 4090

 

[Bill Turnip]

Maybe but I do tend to agree that when you are spending £1000 on a graphics card you don't want to sit there tweaking to get it to work well.

Completely agree, but I don't think people actually are at the moment.

I'm still not tweaking on 10Gb now for vRAM issuess, so I'd not be too concerned about 12gb.

 

[Joxeon]

Only AMD knows, which is why the idea it’s a ‘failure’ in that respect is totally unfounded. Unless someone has some inside information.

We can only go on what we know but a 7900XT uses more silicon, more ram and has a more complex PCB so looking at all those things you would have to say it's costing them more to make than Nvidia's 4070ti.

 

[Bencher]

Just because X game does a terrible job of scaling textures does not mean there are not amazing textures that increase visual fidelity to a massive degree.

The reason people are arguing with you is because you are deluded and will not accept that the 4070ti is not a perfect product. The 4090 is a perfect product and has the price to go with it ,no flaws with this products performance at all. The 4070ti has pretty much the same vram as a gpu from 5 years ago , times move on and it will be a limiting factor in a lot of cases.

The 4070ti is a better slab of silicon than the 7900xt, there I have said it and I am willing to make a concession. the Nv card has similar performance whilst using less power and it does cost less if you buy the right card. It does not make it perfect so open your eyes and see that it does have some flaws. If you want a gpu with no flaws then Nv has you covered with the 4090.

Never said its a perfect product. Actually ive said multiple times its pretty bad for the price. People arguing with me cause of the amd hive mind

 

[Haz123]

We can only go on what we know but a 7900XT uses more silicon, more ram and has a more complex PCB so looking at all those things you would have to say it's costing them more to make than Nvidia's 4070ti.

They are on slightly different nodes for the graphics core so guessing the GCD on 7900 costs less than the entire 4070ti die. I think you are correct in your assumption though and the production costs are most likely lower for 4070ti.

There were rumours that the yields were so good on the 7900 dies that AMD just did not want to sell 7900xt because they had an abundance of fully working cores. May be the reason they priced the XT so badly.

 

[G J]

The way some of you go on is like games are completely unplayable unless you play on maximum settings and have 144hz/360hz/VRAM/RT/Mods/Texture packs/etc and how does one cope as I'm sure theres a few games that even a 4090 has to adjust settings for.

8K gaming must frustrate the **** out of you being so unattaintable at maximum settings.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

@montymint I think your gentle nudge hasn't worked!