When are you going fully electric?

I don’t think you can say categorically it doesn’t make sense. They can make time of use tariffs more viable and come with wider benefits (e.g. longer off peak periods Go vs IOG) and it really depends on how you do your milage rather than the milage itself and what else you have in your property.

That said EV charger installs are still seemingly high margin work these days. Typically 40% of the cost of the installation is the labour and sundry items despite many installs are very straightforward.

It’s not just about the cost, it’s also the convenience and there are safety considerations.

On convenience, a granny charger will not recharge an empty car for the next day, if you do two heavy days in a row you will have problems. Sure that might only be once a year but sometimes the cost is worth the convenience. A granny charger is also vulnerable to theft if not secured when not in use.

As for safety, I’ve lost count of the number of burn out sockets I’ve seen from granny chargers. It’s prudent to check them regularly to make sure they are not getting hot. Sockets can and do wear out and it’s not necessarily age, but the number of insertions it’s had over its life and the general quality.

A single melting incident is likely to cause enough damage to completely negate the cost of a proper charger if you are paying a spark to rectify the issue (assuming it doesn’t burn your house down in the process).
 
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After seeing humax just enter the home charger domain (my recording tv box is going strong 8 years in) more democratization can only drive prices down;

Using a sensible extension cord, like 16A 1.5, should be recommended for grannies too, as I bought for 3KW pressure washer;
the ovo any time ev tarif , with a smart car, should also maximise benefits from granny charging, especially if working from home.
 
It’s not recommended to use an extension lead with granny chargers as it adds another failure link into the chain.

Good granny chargers have a temperature sensors in the plug and they turn off if it starts getting too hot. It’s obviously it I’ll say it anyway, that important safety device against a worn/faulty socket is defeated by using an extension lead.

People also ‘forget’ to properly and fully uncoil extensions that are too long, they also end up melting more often than they should.
 
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Extension cords for Ev should be 2.5mm. And I’m sure those nights that can’t fully charge .. still cheaper to public charge rather than pay over £1k for a 7kW charger
 
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b0rn2sk8 said:
It’s not recommended to use an extension lead with granny chargers as it adds another failure link into the chain.

Good granny chargers have a temperature sensors in the plug and they turn off if it starts getting too hot. It’s obviously it I’ll say it anyway, that important safety device against a worn/faulty socket is defeated by using an extension lead.

People also ‘forget’ to properly and fully uncoil extensions that are too long, they also end up melting more often than they should.
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Dont worry Pope uses the hand og god for thermistor temperature protection at the extra the mechanical link in the chain.

Vatican square is massive i guess, hence running that 3kW pressure washer for 8 hours constant? ... Clueless.
 
Demon said:
Financially it makes no sense but I think it's weird to (presumably figuratively?) slap someone just on that, buying a new car is even more financially illogical, did you slap them on that? I mean point it out but leave the decision up to them!

EVs are slowly taking off in work and I agree that many people think they automatically need a 7kw charger, but I point out the financial argument and that it only takes a little discipline to plug in more often with the granny charger and yet they've all got 7kw chargers (£500 on salary sacrifice).. none seem to have regretted it and enjoy the convenience, some literally just bought an EV to do a 3 mile commute!

One bit of misinformation though is BS-1363-EV which needs to be understood, but many fear it.. i.e. you need to ensure your wiring and socket are actually up to the job for continuous 2kw granny charging.. however, it's not rocket science and some sparkies are royally taking the mickey.. £240 to fit an EV socket and test the existing wiring seems a bit steep and a socket is just a socket, from around £3.50 for a compliant one..

If the 7kw charger gives people more confidence in charging at home, then I'm happy to override any financial decision, I mean people find it hard to plan when using the public charging network, so expecting them to be disciplined and think ahead a little more when granny charging is not the end of the world, and a charger will follow on to the next car..
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Yep. Him and her brother in law. He kept saying he'd made a 2k profit by selling his car with 7k finance outstanding for 9k. I suggested he looked at it from the pov of he could have bought a car valued at 9k for 2k cheaper.

The point with granny charging is it changes your habits so you literally never think about it. I guess some of the intelligent tariffs are similar. You just plug in, think no more....
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
I don’t think you can say categorically it doesn’t make sense. They can make time of use tariffs more viable and come with wider benefits (e.g. longer off peak periods Go vs IOG) and it really depends on how you do your milage rather than the milage itself and what else you have in your property.

That said EV charger installs are still seemingly high margin work these days. Typically 40% of the cost of the installation is the labour and sundry items despite many installs are very straightforward.

It’s not just about the cost, it’s also the convenience and there are safety considerations.

On convenience, a granny charger will not recharge an empty car for the next day, if you do two heavy days in a row you will have problems. Sure that might only be once a year but sometimes the cost is worth the convenience. A granny charger is also vulnerable to theft if not secured when not in use.

As for safety, I’ve lost count of the number of burn out sockets I’ve seen from granny chargers. It’s prudent to check them regularly to make sure they are not getting hot. Sockets can and do wear out and it’s not necessarily age, but the number of insertions it’s had over its life and the general quality.

A single melting incident is likely to cause enough damage to completely negate the cost of a proper charger if you are paying a spark to rectify the issue (assuming it doesn’t burn your house down in the process).
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I agree but I do see them a bit like boilers. The sooner you buy, the sooner you'll be replacing. I'm not sure how robust they are but I imagine planned obsolescence features highly.
 
jpaul said:
seems new humax one can be warrantied out to 5 years https://uk.humaxdigital.com/ev-home-charger/ (but yes they are not made of granite)
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Pioneer should do chargers. My tv was still going strong at 15yrs old….

And my 10yr old 10kW electric shower.

It’s a basic power supply with a Switch. The only thing killing them is the company going under and losing smart feature support
 
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b0rn2sk8 said:
It’s not recommended to use an extension lead with granny chargers as it adds another failure link into the chain.

Good granny chargers have a temperature sensors in the plug and they turn off if it starts getting too hot. It’s obviously it I’ll say it anyway, that important safety device against a worn/faulty socket is defeated by using an extension lead.

People also ‘forget’ to properly and fully uncoil extensions that are too long, they also end up melting more often than they should.
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I have used extension lead with granny before. Just need to reduce the charging current to limit power at 2kw max. Otherwise it will trip the circuit breaker on the extension (assuming it is external graded extension with over current protection)
 
10A is only 2.4kw max.

I assume you are using one with a built in RCD? Thats not normally required as the sockets on the house should have RCD protection and putting two on the same circuit is not normally desirable.

Likewise there is something wrong with it is it’s tripping at 10A and it’s rated to that power level.

I’ve used extension leads, it is what it is and sometimes you can’t get around it but I’d never recommend it. I do make sure to check the sockets periodically to make sure they are not heating up.
 
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Simon said:
Pioneer should do chargers. My tv was still going strong at 15yrs old….

And my 10yr old 10kW electric shower.

It’s a basic power supply with a Switch. The only thing killing them is the company going under and losing smart feature support
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humax do good reliability electronics and software
weaknesses - I don't knows whether most chargers have mechanical relays or solid state, maybe bus to car ensures relay is not under load as it is switched.
 
jpaul said:
humax do good reliability electronics and software
weaknesses - I don't knows whether most chargers have mechanical relays or solid state, maybe bus to car ensures relay is not under load as it is switched.
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I really struggle to see how any of this relevant
 
No matter the wiring size and socket on the end of an extension lead, the extension lead itself has to get plugged into an existing socket in the house, which means there's no difference at all from plugging in the granny directly. It's the socket where anything is plugged in that needs to be up to snuff, and the one that usually melts.
 
This talk of poor wiring on high draw devices gave me flashbacks to our old place. When I pulled out the oven after it packed up I found that it wasn't wired directly into it's own supply. Instead it was connected to a cheap Poundland style extension lead that ran to a hidden socket behind the larder cupboard... where it was plugged into a multiblock that also went off to the timer for the boiler.

It was like that for at least 15 years and somehow the house never burnt down :eek: :p

Just out of interest really but... as an alternative to an EV 'charger' can you not hook up a 32A commando socket?

EDIT - The fact they sell type 2 > commando leads probably answers that question for me :o
 
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lordrobs said:
This talk of poor wiring on high draw devices gave me flashbacks to our old place. When I pulled out the oven after it packed up I found that it wasn't wired directly into it's own supply. Instead it was connected to a cheap Poundland style extension lead that ran to a hidden socket behind the larder cupboard... where it was plugged into a multiblock that also went off to the timer for the boiler.

It was like that for at least 15 years and somehow the house never burnt down :eek: :p
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To be fair, some ovens are only 2 kw and realistically, they are only going full tilt during warm up for 5-10mins.

lordrobs said:
Just out of interest really but... as an alternative to an EV 'charger' can you not hook up a 32A commando socket?

EDIT - The fact they sell type 2 > commando leads probably answers that question for me :o
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Sort of.

You still need EVSE hardware which costs money and the only difference is that it plugs into a commando socket rather than being hard wired. The install cost for a commando socket should be no different to an EV charger particularly if you are using it for EV charging as the same regulations apply. I guess portable EVSEs are cheaper because they are dumb so they don’t have all the added hardware/software/cloud costs of ‘smart chargers’.

People use commando sockets because some cars (like a Tesla) come with a 32A compatible ‘granny charger’ which you can put a commando pigtail into it for a few £.
 
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