When are you going fully electric?

[Jonnycoupe]

The headlines are interesting on BEV sales when they refer to market share when they refer to the constrained nature of car production of the previous years.

May BEV share of EU new car sales down on last year
At 12.5% BEV share is down on last year, but compares with 11.9% in April

In May 2024, ACEA said that registrations of battery-electric (BEV) cars declined by 12% to 114,308 units, with their total market share dropping to 12.5%. Belgium – now the third-largest market by volume for BEVs – and France were the only key markets to record growth, at 44.8% and 5.4%, respectively. In contrast, Germany (-30.6%) and the Netherlands (-11.7%) experienced significant declines last month. From January to May, a total of 556,276 new battery-electric cars were registered, marking a 2% increase from the same period the previous year.

TLDR. Sold more BEVs, headline suggests otherwise.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Ignoring the month on month figures which you’d expect to fluctuate, the overall % growth is disappointing.

Considering it is meant to be the section of the market which is growing the fastest, it’s certainly not demonstrating that.

 

[Nasher]

What is likely to be happening is those who are going to buy an EV (mostly fleet cars, to dodge tax) have already switched to one. There still aren't practical for many and are overpriced.

 

[Penfold101]

I saw a meme yesterday which basically said every manufacturers EV sales had increased in the last financial year, except Tesla who had taken a massive drop.

So massive, in fact, that it made the market as a whole look like it was declining due to the share of it they have.

I’ve no idea how accurate it is but it made me chuckle

 

[Jonnycoupe]

What is likely to be happening is those who are going to buy an EV (mostly fleet cars, to dodge tax) have already switched to one. There still aren't practical for many and are overpriced.

And when they replace after 3 years the cycle starts anyway.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I think Tesla are down 10-12% in Europe so pretty significant.

Musks antics will not be helping either.

 

[lordrobs]

Clearly not true is it

Otherwise we wouldn't have voted for Brexit or other stupid **** that people do

People buying in to political spin / lies isn't the same as day to day financial choices though.

If over the course of a year your commute costs you half as much in an EV as it does in an ICE vehicle then that is a much more compelling sell than Sunak saying that we all need to do our bit for Net Zero (choice) while the local electricity network around his mansion struggles under the load of heating his personal swimming pool.

In a democratic country people need to make the decision themselves, not feel like they are having their hand forced. That's behaviour management 101 and applies to everyone from the moment they have a sense of self as a toddler.

I think Tesla are down 10-12% in Europe so pretty significant.

Musks antics will not be helping either.

Greater choice at the same time as your USP is watered down had to have an impact. I'm surprised they haven't dropped further TBH.

 

[Demon]

Weight doesnt kill EV range, aero does.

I seen it in a documentary on BBC2


We seem to have a more positive EV culture growing in work. I think dailying a v8 and having an EV for family duties helps since people seem curious why a petrol head would have an EV as well, so it gets the conversation going and you can cut through some meme level battery myths fairly well.

On the cost front, I sat down with one manager and I was explaining the costs and EV tariffs etc, and it got him thinking to which he came back and worked out (I checked his maths, it seemed correct) he'd save £200 a month in diesel (80 mile commute per day), he was about to buy a much newer diesel car as his was getting old and started to have issues, that would cost £280pm + £230pm in fuel + £45pm for insurance + £35pm for maintenance, so £560 and only £310 per month for an EV on the SS Scheme with everything included (Insurance/maintenance/tyres/fuel)..

Another manager has just put his order in for a secondhand iPace on the scheme, that works out £110 a month cheaper than anything he can get privately just on finances alone and he will also save on fuel, insurance, maintenance and tyres as well, he is quite excited since it's one hell of a car for £300 per month..

There are also other people starting to look at the £10k-£13k for their second cars and with such crazy EV residuals, some are looking at those as viable cheaper alternatives, purely based on running costs. The follow on depreciation is very much unknown, but even if they lost another 50% of their value in 3 years, it's still pretty good but I would factor that in the amortised cost.

Even our Exec directors are going electric, we now have an i5 M60 on the directors pool car fleet, and that is why our new building due for completion in the next few months will have free charging for as long as they can.. initially 4 chargers with provision for 12, and the long term plan is to keep it as cheap as possible and we'll have allotted charging time slots (those further away get longer slots).. the proposal they put across was all about helping encourage people.. we currently let people charge their EVs for free from a granny charger, we've been doing that for sales guys with Hybrids for years now.

 

[lordrobs]

Even our Exec directors are going electric, we now have an i5 M60 on the directors pool car fleet, and that is why our new building due for completion in the next few months will have free charging for as long as they can.. initially 4 chargers with provision for 12, and the long term plan is to keep it as cheap as possible and we'll have allotted charging time slots (those further away get longer slots).. the proposal they put across was all about helping encourage people.. we currently let people charge their EVs for free from a granny charger, we've been doing that for sales guys with Hybrids for years now.

Sounds very forward thinking. Zero chance of our place offering that. Straight away there would be cries of "where is our free electricity?" and how it "isn't fair" from the non EV owners.

 

[Nasher]

Sounds very forward thinking. Zero chance of our place offering that. Straight away there would be cries of "where is our free electricity?" and how it "isn't fair" from the non EV owners.

Why shouldn't they, or get a petrol allowance. The company is basically paying for their fuel so its the equivalent of giving a pay rise to certain staff.

 

[lordrobs]

Why shouldn't they, or get a petrol allowance. The company is basically paying for their fuel so its the equivalent of giving a pay rise to certain staff.

It's a valid argument. One that management wouldn't want to have at our place.

 

[Journey]

It's a valid argument. One that management wouldn't want to have at our place.

And it is easy to put that to bed, if you get an BEV/PHEV you get to charge for free. Do people also complain that others may get better pension contributions, or more pay, or other perks? If they don't like it then they either put up with it or leave. People are pathetic, I don't complain that I don't get a company car, I accept that, if I want one then I need to get a promotion or change jobs.

 

[msmalls74]

Why shouldn't they, or get a petrol allowance. The company is basically paying for their fuel so its the equivalent of giving a pay rise to certain staff.

As I understand it, companies can use ev charging and supply of EV cars as a way to offset carbon use and increase sustainability. I'm not sure but there maybe some tax incentives or just looking good to the outside world.

 

[lordrobs]

And it is easy to put that to bed, if you get an BEV/PHEV you get to charge for free. Do people also complain that others may get better pension contributions, or more pay, or other perks? If they don't like it then they either put up with it or leave. People are pathetic, I don't complain that I don't get a company car, I accept that, if I want one then I need to get a promotion or change jobs.

I don't think that really puts the argument to bed at all. Just go and get yourself another car isn't really a good counter to a perceived benefit that already benefits those better off financially.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying I can see why if you are in a low paid position and potentially can't afford a car at all seeing people on double your salary (or more) parking up their nearly new cars to fuel them for free might rub them up the wrong way.

It's funny you bring up company cars. People couldn't ditch them quick enough in favour of a car allowance payment a few years ago. Now with an unfair and unsustainable BIK system that favours EVs and PHEVs they are flavour of the month again.

 

[bigmike20vt]

Why shouldn't they, or get a petrol allowance. The company is basically paying for their fuel so its the equivalent of giving a pay rise to certain staff.

because you are (presumably deliberately?) missing the point of promoting EVs in the 1st place

for years our place has offered a free work bus from set locations as well as given the odd reward for multi passenger vehicles and those who cycle or run to work.

offering random perks for single occupancy petrol /diesel drivers would be boneheaded in the extreme (tho admittedly not entirely surprising that some whine about it).

FWIW due to where I live I have not benefitted from most of the perks and I don't use works cheap charging either any more..... but Indo not begrudge those who can benefit.

the one area I think the governments should do better (so separate from individual company perks) is instead of offering policies for huge company car new car tax breaks only, also offer something for people who buy 2nd hand EVs.

a 2nd hand EV is if anything better than getting a new car all the time.

 

[Spleen Sauce]

Our place is based in the centre of Cardiff and has bookable EV charging/parking for £5 a day. I’m surprised it’s as popular as it is to be honest, the spaces seem to get booked up weeks in advance.

 

[lordrobs]

because you are (presumably deliberately?) missing the point of promoting EVs in the 1st place

for years our place has offered a free work bus from set locations as well as given the odd reward for multi passenger vehicles and those who cycle or run to work.

offering random perks for single occupancy petrol /diesel drivers would be boneheaded in the extreme (tho admittedly not entirely surprising that some whine about it).

FWIW due to where I live I have not benefitted from most of the perks and I don't use works cheap charging either any more..... but Indo not begrudge those who can benefit.

It doesn't necessarily counter the argument though. It's fine if there are additional benefits that anyone can tap into, the bus you mentioned being a prime example, as is cycle to work scheme (ignoring the issues that has for a moment...).

How is the free charging of a single occupancy EV any different? It's just got a higher initial cost to the employee (ie. The EV / PHEV) to benefit from the perk. Lumping our obese selves into 8m sq., 2 tons of metal and plastic to get to and from work each day is hardly the epitome of zero impact travel at the end of the day.

There is a certain amount of devil's advocate in this reply but I think there is reason to empathise with the minimum wage employee on the production line, even if you don't necessarily agree with their rebuttal against the offering.

 

[bigmike20vt]

There is a certain amount of devil's advocate in this reply but I think there is reason to empathise with the minimum wage employee on the production line, even if you don't necessarily agree with their rebuttal against the offering.

fair point perhaps however that is where my 2nd point comes in. I think there should be some perk for private individuals who buy a 2nd hand EV..... which would then give them access to any work charging etc

 

[jpaul]

still the government policy that is responsible for that disparity of ev grant between private individual and fleet bik bonus ( De more equitable I thought), also permitting free work charging as non personally taxable,

learning goes on -

given (I think) 1l of petrol contains the equivalent of 9kwh of electricity

taking a somewhat like for like equivalent of a petrol golf GTi Vs a VW ID3, my money would be on the ID3 being more efficient in any mixed real world driving , even with any increased weight

does look like an f150 e lightning can do ~2miles/kwh with or without 700kg loading - Rrofs next pick up.
e: missed a bit - on a straight highway @70

 

[Tinders]

VW have been kind enough to let me have a ID7 on demo for a few days. Have to say, having spent a day in it, its typical VW, a little dull, a few chintzy bits, but does everything it needs to in a an understated manner.

The weather is good so ive been getting 4.7mi/kwh, its a huge car aswell. I did a quick splash and dash earlier just to see how difficult it is, and tbh it was easy on ionity, speed was good. Even though on paper they arent a quick EV, the turn of pace is impressive. I would have loved something that looked a bit more interesting, but as a general family chariot/motorway mile muncher, its a cracking car. The massage seats are brilliant, and in general the seat comfort is as good as my old XC60.