When are you going fully electric?

[bimbleuk]

No rapid charging if I recall correctly. That combined with a very short range... not recommended.

RE: Merc B250e

Like a lot the "compliance" EV cars out there they don't really want you to buy them so miss bits like that to make them less appealing

 

[ShiWarrior]

looks like something out of the 80's

 

[bimbleuk]

looks like something out of the 80's

Which is what a lot peeps liked more about the Concept car so they confirmed they were on the right track. The near production car is less "retro" but yeah they have the heritage so why not use it.

It'll mostly get hammered on range just like the i3 as they are primarily "urban" cars by design. Hopefully though smaller battery means more production and less cost as Tesla/VAG may have a lead on battery production capacity.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Given a small car like the Kona can house a near 70kw pack (62 useable), the Kona isn’t that much bigger than that. The Kona also makes compromises because it can take an ICE & hybrid in the same chassis, it would be even better if it was pure EV.

The Zoe is also set to get a 60kw pack and that is a Clio/Fiesta sized car, again looking close to 250 miles rage.

I’m sure that thing could have a decent sized battery for 250miles range and a decent charge rate if they packaged it correctly.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Finally got round to watching the fully charged video, cant help but feel disappointed. It looks great but comments like 'propper EV' really don't help when it has the specs of a Leaf that came out 4 years prior (30kw version). 120 miles range just isn't acceptable for a car launching in 2019, even for an 'urban car'. You'll need to be charging this every few days even on the school run just in case you do need to take a trip to the next town at short notice. They said its longer than a Jazz which puts it firmly in the same size bracket as a Zoe so no real excuses for a 120 mile range and only 4 seats.

Speaking of 'urban car', what does that even mean? I hate that term, its just a small car, small cars can and are driven all over the place.

There is a lot of good stuff there though, the car looks simply stunning.

I really like how it looks from the outside, its not being 'eco' by having stupid blue highlights and has a great retro look with buckets of character just like the Fiat 500 and the first new Mini pioneered. Love the roof line and the lights and body lines.

The interior looks great, its really clean. Not quite Tesla clean (have to say I am a big fan of the clean look of a Tesla) but its the best I have seen from the 'old guard'. I like the material that they used on the seats, really ties in with the overall look and the same goes for the 'wood'.

I just have a huge problem with its form over function, I can see it selling well initially but not long term. I can see it getting poor feedback from the motoring press over the longer term.

 

[weescott]

I have had my 94ah BEV for just over 2 years and wouldn't go back an ICE. I use free public charging most of the time so running costs are almost zero. My local authority are looking at implementing charging for rapids. No time frame yet but we invested in Solar panels to offset future price increases. We will look into getting a 2nd EV as more models come out. Possibly at the end of the year.

 

[Journey]

Two of my relatives drive less than 120 miles a week, pottering around the local village, and popping to supermarket, yet one of them spent £25k on a car, it has 6000 miles on it after 4 years, that's about 30 miles or week, I hardly think they are unique examples either.

Yes 120 miles for a car enthusiast or someone with a long commute it seems rubbish, but for a quite a number of people it would fit the bill perfectly.

 

[bimbleuk]

Two of my relatives drive less than 120 miles a week, pottering around the local village, and popping to supermarket, yet one of them spent £25k on a car, it has 6000 miles on it after 4 years, that's about 30 miles or week, I hardly think they are unique examples either.

Yes 120 miles for a car enthusiast or someone with a long commute it seems rubbish, but for a quite a number of people it would fit the bill perfectly.

My dad is the same as he recently bought an Astra GTC reckoning it would be the first and last time he would be able to buy a new car before he retired from driving. He only uses it for the supermarket and golf 3 times a week! Previously I had to drive his diesel up and down the local bypass the clear the particle filter plus if he wants to visit family I end up driving anyway as he can't really do it now. Maybe not the demographic Honda were aiming at though

I think it really only needs ~160 miles like the current i3 which is twice my older model (2015) range in the same packaging that's how quickly the batteries have developed.

Looking at the dimensions it's similar length but ~ 10 cm narrower and shorter than an i3 and so they are struggling with leg room in the back for example with the under floor battery pack. They may have "backed themselves into a corner" due to the design choice until battery density improves further but they mentioned that in the vid.

I do agree though that there is an arms race in range currently with massive battery packs in the 500-700 kg range. Some of this possibly is from degradation due to power draw (they are heavy but accelerate quickly) and require constant rapid charging cycles (the packs are big but relatively slow to charge) which can be mitigated with more cells and you get the idea. Hopefully supplementary supercharger packs and dry/solid state batteries will come along quickly.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

The bigger packs don’t need constant rapid charging, I don’t really know what you mean by that?

100miles is considered very high daily mileage (circa 25k just on the commute) and that can be replenished in under 4 hours on a slow home charger. You can refil a model 3 in about 10-12 hours on a home charger from empty to full which is an unrealistic daily use case. The car is never completely empty and you shouldn’t charge it to full daily unless you need it.

 

[chroniclard]

I absolutely love that Honda however the 120 mile range would mean we would have to go back to being a 2 car family. 200 mile range would be my absolute minimum for our trips back up north.

Which is a shame as my usual daily mileage is circa 15-20 miles.

 

[Spleen Sauce]

I've just bought a 2 year old Audi S4. Probably be the last combustion engine car I buy - when I eventually look to change it I'm hoping the charging infrastructure in the UK will be there and it'll be a no-brainer.

 

[Jamesyboyjim]

For me, an EV makes sense. My new job is only a few miles from home and although I intend to look at a new push bike first, having a warm dry car for those cold wet mornings would be nice. At the moment I'm driving and those few miles of stop start traffic isn't doing my car or its clutch any favours!

 

[bimbleuk]

The bigger packs don’t need constant rapid charging, I don’t really know what you mean by that?

100miles is considered very high daily mileage (circa 25k just on the commute) and that can be replenished in under 4 hours on a slow home charger. You can refil a model 3 in about 10-12 hours on a home charger from empty to full which is an unrealistic daily use case. The car is never completely empty and you shouldn’t charge it to full daily unless you need it.

I believe the larger pack encourages people to use the more like ICE cars and therefore charge less at home especially as not everyone has access to a fast charger. With a smaller range like my 80 miles you almost have to have a fast charger (though it's possible to just use a 3 pin) and also think more carefully about your journeys. That combined with 50, 100, 150KW chargers and beyond are taxing the current batteries more while charging. You only have to see how cold and heat affects the ability of batteries to charge to see they are operating within protection constraints currently.

However yeah for me and others a 200+ mile range would only required a charge each weekend at the typical 7.2 KW.

 

[Abraxaz1]

I don't think the honda prototype is designed to be sold outside of Japan, I take it from news articles that this is gonna be sold as the new generation of k cars. So would explain the low range, as the Japanese use larger cars or the trains to travel further

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I believe the larger pack encourages people to use the more like ICE cars and therefore charge less at home especially as not everyone has access to a fast charger. With a smaller range like my 80 miles you almost have to have a fast charger (though it's possible to just use a 3 pin) and also think more carefully about your journeys. That combined with 50, 100, 150KW chargers and beyond are taxing the current batteries more while charging. You only have to see how cold and heat affects the ability of batteries to charge to see they are operating within protection constraints currently.

However yeah for me and others a 200+ mile range would only required a charge each weekend at the typical 7.2 KW.

To be honest I think you’d be mad to buy any EV right now if you didn’t have access to a designated charge point daily even with a 100D Tesla. If you talk to most Tesla owners they will tell you that they plug in every night to keep it topped up to 80% or so.

I don't think the honda prototype is designed to be sold outside of Japan, I take it from news articles that this is gonna be sold as the new generation of k cars. So would explain the low range, as the Japanese use larger cars or the trains to travel further

It’s coming to Europe that’s for certain, both left and right hand drive. The price is going to be the likely determining factor on this one I think. I can’t see many buying it if it is priced much higher than a Zoe.

 

[Nasher]

I don't think the honda prototype is designed to be sold outside of Japan, I take it from news articles that this is gonna be sold as the new generation of k cars. So would explain the low range, as the Japanese use larger cars or the trains to travel further

K cars get some kind of tax break or other benefits I think.

 

[daveski]

I've noticed the Kia E-Niro is on the salary sacrifice car scheme at work for approx £330 a month (4 years, 20k a year) with no deposit and full maintenance.

It's about £50 a month more than the Kia Soul EV and think it's worth the extra for the range and increased performance. I've asked for a demo but I am on the waiting list. I love the idea of it but it's still ~£100 a month more expensive than it currently costs me to run my old diesel Fiat.

 

[glenimp617]

Whats the deal with the government grant these days? I hear it's a minimum of range plus something else to qualify?

 

[b0rn2sk8]

£3.5k off.

Pretty much any full EV is fine, PHEV are pretty much out now.

 

[McPhee]

It's range and emissions.

<50g CO2 per km.
>70 miles zero emissions range.

So as above, all PHEVs are out (for now) except for the BMW i3 REx.