When the Gpu's prices will go down ?

0h_no_not_again · 7 Dec 2022 at 08:31

Aaron Tennant said:
So why and surely this is against the law

Perhaps they might get slapped with another fine for lying to their investors again!

They can sell what they want at whatever prices they want, so long as they aren't working with competitors to force consumers to pay higher prices, a.k.a price fixing.

Based on AMDs offering, it looks nothing like price fixing.

Jensen came out and said that they were going to intentionally reduce supply and raise prices. He's entirely entitled to do so. His share holders don't care so long as the dividends are good and the share price continues to go up.

What will be interesting to see is where the excess wafers ordered with TSMC end up going. The likely answer is the datacentre, where most of NVs market is and where there is still huge investment despite the economic situation.

delta0 · 7 Dec 2022 at 09:41

It’s clear Nvidia have a problem with the amount of stock left over from the 3xxx series. They can’t put the 4xxx prices down to a level close to the previous gen so the best course is to keep the prices high and supply low. I wonder if they considered not bringing out a 4xxx all together and just wait for longer. Perhaps they are just focusing on a target market that has shorter upgrade cycles which is very small.

I fear they will just confuse the consumer a bit with these old cards and overpriced new cards. People won’t want to buy the older version but won’t be able to afford the new one. They could stall their own sales. It would be interesting to see the sales numbers of each card since the 4xxx series came out and when they think they will get through all the 3xxx stock.

Grim5 · 7 Dec 2022 at 10:02

According to Linus entry level GPUs are a waste of money and no one should buy them they are e waste

Zarax · 7 Dec 2022 at 10:04

Grim5 said:
According to Linus entry level GPUs are a waste of money and no one should buy them they are e waste

RX 6500 and below are quite bad indeed, we get 2016 price/performance ratio with the only benefit being lower power consumption.
I wouldn't say e-waste but unless at a pretty good discount they are pretty bad value for money.

SpudMaster · 7 Dec 2022 at 10:13

Angilion said:
I don't think so. The 7900xtx won't be very much cheaper than the 4080 that it's intended to compete against. Maybe 10%, maybe as much as 15%. It only competes with it on raster. It's worse on ray tracing, worse on estimated frames and doesn't do fake frames at all. Since estimated frames and fake frames create much higher FPS and bigger numbers sell more, the 4080 will be widely perceived as being significantly better. Also, ray tracing is a selling point. Then there's the fact that nvidia is a much more valuable fashion brand than AMD. A large proportion of the market would pay more for an nvidia card even if it's objectively worse, let alone when it's subjectively better (and arguably objectively better). Also, I think nvidia is more interested in having the 4080 as an upselling tool for the 4090 than it is in selling 4080s.

I feel this will probably be the case also

TNA · 7 Dec 2022 at 12:55

Insanties_birth said:
No one likes fake frames if they introduce lag / latency. That is the major problem, when you have things like regular FSR and DLSS2 putting up your FPS in a decent way without a major latency factor then that tech seems better than the supposed sequel with DLSS3. It's always relevant to how the in-game experience plays but yeah, I was sorely disappointed in Nvidia when they had DLSS2 already (something people normally praise of course) and then they throw out a supposed upgrade that introduces problems and makes it unnatractive. You only have to analyse it realistically but slower games will typically not need huge fps and so the benefits of fake frames are not there, for faster games that introduced latency is obviously not ideal either. Fake frames are bad unless you can mitigate latency. Nvidia just threw out whatever they had on hand but it must be a generation or two in the making like the first days of ray tracing, it's buying a card for an idea when it's not able to fulfil. That with the huge mark ups in prices and the latest Nvidia cards were real turds. I don't know, maybe I just don't like jitter, ghosting and latency sold at a premium price lol.

Let me guess, you don’t like RT too right?

In all seriousness I have not tried fake frame generation and likely won’t for another couple of years. Will see what’s what then. If it manages to come a long way like DLSS/FSR did then I may use it in certain new titles that need it to be played at high settings, but otherwise yeah it would not be on.

Nexus18 · 7 Dec 2022 at 12:59

TNA said:
Let me guess, you don’t like RT too right?

In all seriousness I have not tried fake frame generation and likely won’t for another couple of years. Will see what’s what then. If it manages to come a long way like DLSS/FSR did then I may use it in certain new titles that need it to be played at high settings, but otherwise yeah it would not be on.

From reading actual users opinions on FG/dlss 3, seems like the majority rate it highly tbf, the main complaint is always the latency but as attested to by several review outlets and end users, if you're pushing a high base fps already, most people don't seem to notice it or rather don't have any issue with it, especially if using a controller or/and playing a slower paced non fps game.

Better to have the option (and a pretty decent one at that) than not to imo.

As per usual, YMMV.

GuruJockStrap · 7 Dec 2022 at 13:35

In an online multiplayer FPS, I can see how any added latency via Frame Generation would not be ideal but for offline, single player games where frame rate is pushing 60+ FPS, is it really an issue?

Zarax · 7 Dec 2022 at 13:48

GuruJockStrap said:
In an online multiplayer FPS, I can see how any added latency via Frame Generation would not be ideal but for offline, single player games where frame rate is pushing 60+ FPS, is it really an issue?

I would expect it to be less than ideal for games relying on fast paced action, possibly nuDoom and soulslike?

Nexus18 · 7 Dec 2022 at 15:44

GuruJockStrap said:
In an online multiplayer FPS, I can see how any added latency via Frame Generation would not be ideal but for offline, single player games where frame rate is pushing 60+ FPS, is it really an issue?

That's pretty much what the naysayers always keep referring to when it comes to latency and FG, "ZOMG, no one would use it in a PVP game", acting like people with 4090s main game is cs:s with max settings at like 8/16k :cry:

FG is 100% for games like portal rtx, cp rt overdrive (when it comes out) and so on, not BF, COD, CS....

Angilion · 7 Dec 2022 at 22:32

OverDrive said:
What about FSR 3?

AMD previews FSR 3.0, which now includes frame generation

AMD is already gearing up to release FSR 3.0, which takes the fight back to Nvidia with frame generation capabilities.

www.digitaltrends.com

Is that out yet? I thought it wasn't.

TNA · 7 Dec 2022 at 23:11

Angilion said:
Is that out yet? I thought it wasn't.

Don’t think it is, hence in the title it says preview

andybird123 · 8 Dec 2022 at 02:40

GuruJockStrap said:
In an online multiplayer FPS, I can see how any added latency via Frame Generation would not be ideal but for offline, single player games where frame rate is pushing 60+ FPS, is it really an issue?

Having tried to play games on TV's with suboptimal input latency, yes it is. It still feels awful even if your FPS counter says silly high numbers but the actual latency is 50ms+ (which is what the demos of dlss3 are running at). And yes I only tried single player games this way, it still felt ridiculously awful.

I'm definitely not spending a grand plus on a GPU thinking "oh it's ok because I can use frame generation to get 100fps".

andybird123 · 8 Dec 2022 at 02:56

Grim5 said:
According to Linus entry level GPUs are a waste of money and no one should buy them they are e waste

Looking at the price/performance uplift you get through the bottom few cards I would tend to agree - double the performance for 20-30% extra cost seems like a no brainer.

Insanties_birth · 8 Dec 2022 at 13:03

TNA said:
Let me guess, you don’t like RT too right?

In all seriousness I have not tried fake frame generation and likely won’t for another couple of years. Will see what’s what then. If it manages to come a long way like DLSS/FSR did then I may use it in certain new titles that need it to be played at high settings, but otherwise yeah it would not be on.

Ray tracing is fine, it's a visual benefit and you choose to flick it on or off. For me it's just when they have DLSS2 that DLSS3 seemed a flawed approach with the visual and latency issues it introduces which are abnormal considering there is already alternatives. I like to run any game at steady 60fps with the best visuals possible, the less it can stutter, ghost or have any other inconsistencies the better so Ray tracing would be switched on when it's not making the fps go topsy turvy in a poorly optimised game for example.

That's the thing, I'd not be surprised at all if they manage to mitigate a lot of the issues over time but it's just judging these cards for their current feature and performance. They may impress us over time but at the moment there best bet is to get those RTX remastered games flowing so that there's more than a handful as well. For me I've never been a big fan of Portal and Morrowind is the only other game I know they are implementing it on. That one is right up my alley but I wouldn't be tempted on just one game (of interest to me).

Frenzy · 8 Dec 2022 at 13:32

Portal was fun but received massive overhype. RTX on it does nothing for me.

Im appalled by dlss because of the increased latency, monitors were being criticised for response times less than what dlss introduces.
The fact that they are using it to show off performance is a joke.

TNA · 8 Dec 2022 at 18:39

Insanties_birth said:
Ray tracing is fine, it's a visual benefit and you choose to flick it on or off. For me it's just when they have DLSS2 that DLSS3 seemed a flawed approach with the visual and latency issues it introduces which are abnormal considering there is already alternatives. I like to run any game at steady 60fps with the best visuals possible, the less it can stutter, ghost or have any other inconsistencies the better so Ray tracing would be switched on when it's not making the fps go topsy turvy in a poorly optimised game for example.

That's the thing, I'd not be surprised at all if they manage to mitigate a lot of the issues over time but it's just judging these cards for their current feature and performance. They may impress us over time but at the moment there best bet is to get those RTX remastered games flowing so that there's more than a handful as well. For me I've never been a big fan of Portal and Morrowind is the only other game I know they are implementing it on. That one is right up my alley but I wouldn't be tempted on just one game (of interest to me).

Damn, I thought it was Oblivion not Morrowind

Jay85 · 8 Dec 2022 at 18:45

0h_no_not_again said:
They can sell what they want at whatever prices they want, so long as they aren't working with competitors to force consumers to pay higher prices, a.k.a price fixing.

Based on AMDs offering, it looks nothing like price fixing.

Jensen came out and said that they were going to intentionally reduce supply and raise prices. He's entirely entitled to do so. His share holders don't care so long as the dividends are good and the share price continues to go up.

What will be interesting to see is where the excess wafers ordered with TSMC end up going. The likely answer is the datacentre, where most of NVs market is and where there is still huge investment despite the economic situation.

You mean like this back in 2008?

Nvidia settles price-fixing lawsuit

Out-of-court deal cut with plaintiffs

www.theregister.com

LtMatt · 8 Dec 2022 at 21:21

Frenzy said:
Portal was fun but received massive overhype. RTX on it does nothing for me.

Im appalled by dlss because of the increased latency, monitors were being criticised for response times less than what dlss introduces.
The fact that they are using it to show off performance is a joke.

Preach brother.

Grim5 · 8 Dec 2022 at 21:50

Frenzy said:
Portal was fun but received massive overhype. RTX on it does nothing for me.

Im appalled by dlss because of the increased latency, monitors were being criticised for response times less than what dlss introduces.
The fact that they are using it to show off performance is a joke.

Well if better graphics does nothing for you then you're a lucky man cause that will certainly save a lot of money as you can get away with decade old hardware. Your 980ti will still play games with bad graphics for years to come