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When the Gpu's prices will go down ?

0h_no_not_again said:
They can sell what they want at whatever prices they want, so long as they aren't working with competitors to force consumers to pay higher prices, a.k.a price fixing.

Based on AMDs offering, it looks nothing like price fixing.

Jensen came out and said that they were going to intentionally reduce supply and raise prices. He's entirely entitled to do so. His share holders don't care so long as the dividends are good and the share price continues to go up.

What will be interesting to see is where the excess wafers ordered with TSMC end up going. The likely answer is the datacentre, where most of NVs market is and where there is still huge investment despite the economic situation.
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Good grief are you a pc gamer or a shareholder?
 
In the meantime cpus are being shovelled out the door and it's quite accessible to anyone.

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Obviously only one retailer but unless they're drinking special sauce it's going to be much the same for everyone else.

5800X3D can't be printed fast enough.

AMD is willing to print shiploads of something with a real competitive advantage. Can only hope gpu chiplets turn into that eventually.
 
BigBANGtheory said:
Good grief are you a pc gamer or a shareholder?
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I'm a gamer, but have worked in consumer & automotive electronics for a decent while. I don't blame any company trying to reduce supply at the moment, it is bloody hard to get any product manufactured with supply shortages and various geopolitical issues.

These sorts of "games" suck in the short term, but they will subside as competition gathers.

Im constantly pushing for higher volumes and lower margins for a properly "green" product I work on now,
Jay85 said:
You mean like this back in 2008?

Nvidia settles price-fixing lawsuit

Out-of-court deal cut with plaintiffs
www.theregister.com www.theregister.com
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Sure. We have no idea on the evidence brought forwards or if the accusation was true, but you can bet it was cheaper for NV & AMD to settle than to go through the courts.

EDIT: It would not surprise me they were price fixing in 2008. We just don't have any evidence at all to support price fixing today. On the contrary, Jensen said they would limit supply of the 4090 and 4080 to maintain margins and slow manufacture.
 
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BigBANGtheory said:
Good grief are you a pc gamer or a shareholder?
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I'm a gamer. I want competition and low prices. The thing is, I've spent most of my career being a lead engineer on consumer & automotive electronics and as a result I can understand why supply might be being limited:
  • High volumes are not (currently) rendering cost benefits they would normally
  • Electronics components shortages are yet to peak, despite demand on cutting edge nodes being lower
  • Manufacturing & shipping is currently an absolute arse with various lockdowns and geopolitical issues
  • Margins are being eroded with increased costs of everything.
In saying this I am constantly pushing for higher volumes and lower margins on a "carbon reducing/life improving" product I work on that isn't affordable to everyone. So personally, I dislike this approach, but the easy road is to keep volumes low and margins high. Same benefit to the company, a 10th the work for me.

So my I figure I just try see things as they are rather than being tribal *shrug*. Problem is we're all biased AF by design, so I'm most likely wrong.
 
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I think the issue is assuming the person a bit different to you is a label you choose.
The person you labelled brought a good argument in that a company may just settle in court to get it out of the way and it is just an easier option in contrast they may get some forum dweller who remember things from the past and entombs any future progress in that past thing examing things as constant when nothing lasts forever.


I am not saying either argument is wrong or right it is just that all of us are literally ignorant.
 
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gpuerrilla said:
You should also be critical of any company. For some reason people interpret this as hating them. We should not be so quick to just give them bye balls..
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I agree, but I also think that providing a different viewpoint with reasoning should not be problematic.

I haven't had an NV card for something like 10 years, despite them having a superior product, because I dislike a bunch of their practices. I really should buy NV as I **** about with Pytorch and play VR games. Despite my feelings about NV, I can still understand why they act they way they do.

To the point though, NV can make these decisions so long as the competition is poor. So it is great that Intel have entered the dGPU market, and I can't wait for them to become competetive.
 
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0h_no_not_again said:
I'm a gamer, but have worked in consumer & automotive electronics for a decent while. I don't blame any company trying to reduce supply at the moment, it is bloody hard to get any product manufactured with supply shortages and various geopolitical issues.

These sorts of "games" suck in the short term, but they will subside as competition gathers.

Im constantly pushing for higher volumes and lower margins for a properly "green" product I work on now,


Sure. We have no idea on the evidence brought forwards or if the accusation was true, but you can bet it was cheaper for NV & AMD to settle than to go through the courts.

EDIT: It would not surprise me they were price fixing in 2008. We just don't have any evidence at all to support price fixing today. On the contrary, Jensen said they would limit supply of the 4090 and 4080 to maintain margins and slow manufacture.
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Exactly though, you're working off a greedy business mindset and not an industry mindset (health of industry) or consumer mind set. I couldn't come away with another conclusion based on your statements earlier that they can charge whatever they want and justifying ripping people off provided there isn't 'competition' to force them to lower prices. Judging from your comment you've quickly defended price hiking and shirked off the idea of price fixing just as quick. I would definitely blame companies for being greedy and selfish regardless of whether they feel there is enough 'competition' to force them not to. After all who else is holding the cards and committing the crimes so to speak?

I'm a realist too and I get why it is happening but I wouldn't defend scrupulous practices and taking advantage of the industry because price gouging it also bad for the industry. There can be such a thing as misjudging the market (such as the 4080 costs leading to lack of sales) but sadly I don't think even Nvidia's greed is enough to damage their brand in a market where people are so forgiving of it. We can talk about margins and supply but prices have nearly doubled from just a few years ago and these are several hundred pound items, the margins didn't shrink that bad.. Price fixing by the definition you've presented is obviously reliant on competitive price fixing but when you're basically the monopoly that holds the cards because (as you say yourself) you feel there is no competition then they can price fix without need of competitors consent. To be honest, this is my first time seeing you post so I'm not trying to be rude but I would definitely say you come across not on the consumer side despite your protest. I'm not trying to dig that in or anything but just giving my feedback that if you wanted to appear as the gamer friendly type then I'd avoid just shirking off any criticism of Nvidia or business practices from the get go and promoting their price gouging with no caveats.
 
Grim5 said:
Well if better graphics does nothing for you then you're a lucky man cause that will certainly save a lot of money as you can get away with decade old hardware. Your 980ti will still play games with bad graphics for years to come
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It's true though, I love playing old games with better graphics. It's what will convince me to finally try System Shock, one of my most anticipated games is the knights of the old republic remake, I am interested in Resident Evil 4, Metal Gear Solid 1 (just a rumour so far) and the Witcher remake. I got into the souls games late so I have mostly beat the newest stuff like Sekiro, Elden ring and Bloodborne but I finally picked up Demons souls just because of the remake. But if a game doesn't appeal then a shiny coat falls flat regardless, can't blame people for not playing a game and wasting time on something they don't enjoy just because it's shinier.

Like I said, I love remakes as it gives me another reason to replay a game I either know will be worth remaking or one I know I already like and would be great modernised. That's why the RTX Morrowind is very tempting and a cap in Nvidia's hat (the only one this generation as pricing was poor and DLSS3 a let down due to latency) whereas Portal won't do it for me regardless but there's no need to get too rude about peoples systems. I'm a console gamer at heart so I've played my fair share of 'ugly' games by PC elitism standards but people can enjoy a game regardless. The spit shine helps but a game is still a game regardless, it won't stop being fun because people forgot to buy the latest card every time.
 
Insanties_birth said:
Exactly though, you're working off a greedy business mindset and not an industry mindset (health of industry) or consumer mind set. I couldn't come away with another conclusion based on your statements earlier that they can charge whatever they want and justifying ripping people off provided there isn't 'competition' to force them to lower prices. Judging from your comment you've quickly defended price hiking and shirked off the idea of price fixing just as quick. I would definitely blame companies for being greedy and selfish regardless of whether they feel there is enough 'competition' to force them not to. After all who else is holding the cards and committing the crimes so to speak?

I'm a realist too and I get why it is happening but I wouldn't defend scrupulous practices and taking advantage of the industry because price gouging it also bad for the industry. There can be such a thing as misjudging the market (such as the 4080 costs leading to lack of sales) but sadly I don't think even Nvidia's greed is enough to damage their brand in a market where people are so forgiving of it. We can talk about margins and supply but prices have nearly doubled from just a few years ago and these are several hundred pound items, the margins didn't shrink that bad.. Price fixing by the definition you've presented is obviously reliant on competitive price fixing but when you're basically the monopoly that holds the cards because (as you say yourself) you feel there is no competition then they can price fix without need of competitors consent. To be honest, this is my first time seeing you post so I'm not trying to be rude but I would definitely say you come across not on the consumer side despite your protest. I'm not trying to dig that in or anything but just giving my feedback that if you wanted to appear as the gamer friendly type then I'd avoid just shirking off any criticism of Nvidia or business practices from the get go and promoting their price gouging with no caveats.
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All fair points. I didn't want to write a dissertation though, so accept my arguments are malformed.

I FEEL that the 4090 and 4080 prices were absolutely ridiculous, even with the costs of components & cutting edge nodes going up. I'm not going to buy them and I wouldn't recommend anyone buy them unless you absolutely need to. I'm not going to claim we (as consumers) have a right to demand certain pricing though, that's ridiculous. We absolutely have the right to a fair and free market, i.e. no price fixing.

But I don't THINK in such turbulent times that hiking prices for a card like the 4090 and making sure your supply can hit demand is greedy or foolish. That thing must cost a bomb to manufacture and be nearly impossible to keep the lines running. I'd be very surprised if most supply of the 4090 isn't being consumed.
What is obviously and objectively greedy is the price of the 4080, which looks to strongarm mid-range users into paying over £/$1k for a significantly cheaper product to fab & manufacture than the 4090. That is a ******* product with a ******* price. The thing is, NV can price as they wish, and maybe they have supply issues and want to slow sales. Good for them, I won't bite.

The middle market remains to be revealed, but I expect NV will release more of the same overpriced products. I'm praying AMD are ruthless like they were in the early Zen days and drive true competition, even if they aren't contesting the high end.
 
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Insanties_birth said:
It's true though, I love playing old games with better graphics. It's what will convince me to finally try System Shock, one of my most anticipated games is the knights of the old republic remake, I am interested in Resident Evil 4, Metal Gear Solid 1 (just a rumour so far) and the Witcher remake. I got into the souls games late so I have mostly beat the newest stuff like Sekiro, Elden ring and Bloodborne but I finally picked up Demons souls just because of the remake. But if a game doesn't appeal then a shiny coat falls flat regardless, can't blame people for not playing a game and wasting time on something they don't enjoy just because it's shinier.

Like I said, I love remakes as it gives me another reason to replay a game I either know will be worth remaking or one I know I already like and would be great modernised. That's why the RTX Morrowind is very tempting and a cap in Nvidia's hat (the only one this generation as pricing was poor and DLSS3 a let down due to latency) whereas Portal won't do it for me regardless but there's no need to get too rude about peoples systems. I'm a console gamer at heart so I've played my fair share of 'ugly' games by PC elitism standards but people can enjoy a game regardless. The spit shine helps but a game is still a game regardless, it won't stop being fun because people forgot to buy the latest card every time.
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I think he misunderstood what I was saying, after the rude response I couldn't be bothered to respond to him.
 
Murphy said:
Considering there's rumours of a imminent price cut on 4080's due to them sitting on shelves i think you maybe a little premature.
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Haha, sorry. I was being melodramatic and slightly sarcastic. Although I stand by the general sentiment: You can see that both 40 & 70 series render no improvement to price vs. performance than the prior generation: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-radeon-rx-7900-xtx/33.html

The 7900XT/XTX looks like it will improve with better drivers. The 4080 and 4090 have already had price cuts. As you say, things will likely improve, but it's not the step response we were hoping for. More a crawl towards reasonable value.
 
0h_no_not_again said:
Haha, sorry. I was being melodramatic and slightly sarcastic. Although I stand by the general sentiment: You can see that both 40 & 70 series render no improvement to price vs. performance than the prior generation: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-radeon-rx-7900-xtx/33.html

The 7900XT/XTX looks like it will improve with better drivers. The 4080 and 4090 have already had price cuts. As you say, things will likely improve, but it's not the step response we were hoping for. More a crawl towards reasonable value.
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A crawl through treacle with a 100Lbs weight around their neck. :D

Seriously though anyone who was thinking 7000 series would force Nvidia to reduce prices was being overly ambitious IMO, Nvidia are largely competing with themselves now days or AMD has just accepted that Nvidia command a 20% premium over what they offer. I've said it before but in my opinion i suspect they're clouding to fix prices, obviously i have zero evidence other than how both of them have pushed prices up and AMD always seem to be within £100-200 of Nvidia's raster performance equivalent card.

e: New generation cards: Making old GPU's look good for the last five years. ;)
delta0 said:
A price war with the 7900xtx is not something Nvidia would win so I’m not sure this rumour is true.
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They wouldn't do it for that, they'd do it because people just ain't buying 4080's.
 
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Murphy said:
They wouldn't do it for that, they'd do it because people just ain't buying 4080's.
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They have no room to reduce it. Were will the 4070 and Ti going to fit? The 3xxx cards? They would all have to have a price cut as well. Reality is we will see the 4070 and Ti around 7900xt/xtx levels or just below.
 
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