When the Gpu's prices will go down ?

[Murphy]

The model number doesn't mean spit as evidenced by the regular complaining and moaning that X model number used to have Y characteristics.

If you stand by your decision to use the term "low end card" as being low in the product stack and unrelated to actual performance then we're back to why I didn't like this reasoning:



You're comparing a historical price to current product stack positioning. Not performance, you've made it very clear that low end card just means product stack position.

Why care what the product stack position is! The only comparison which makes any sense is the price and the performance.

Price for product stack position is an insane metric.

Yes I'm comparing historical price to current product stack positioning because that's how people judge whether a new product is worth buying, are you seriously telling me people buy new model cars each year just because it's 5% better and cost 5% more? Because if so then why not just buy the highest end model and keep it until the lowest spec car is better than it. What on earth do you think the model number of a graphics card indicates?

The reason why people should care about the product stack is because it allows people to make quick comparisons between different models, to look at a 5600, 6600, or even a 7600 and understand that they should expect similar relative performance to price with each of those models product stacks.

What do you think the model numbers are for if not for organising the relative performance with the product stack?

Is it just that you're butt-hurt at the idea of someone saying your GPU is considered a low-end card? Is it that you feel like you've been had because you paid the equivalent of an RX 590 price and got a RX 560?

 

[Hotwired]

Yes I'm comparing historical price to current product stack positioning because that's how people judge whether a new product is worth buying, are you seriously telling me people buy new model cars each year just because it's 5% better and cost 5% more? Because if so then why not just buy the highest end model and keep it until the lowest spec car is better than it. What on earth do you think the model number of a graphics card indicates?

The reason why people should care about the product stack is because it allows people to make quick comparisons between different models, to look at a 5600, 6600, or even a 7600 and understand that they should expect similar relative performance to price with each of those models product stacks.

What do you think the model numbers are for if not for organising the relative performance with the product stack?

Is it just that you're butt-hurt at the idea of someone saying your GPU is considered a low-end card?

I thought you were a myth. Someone who buys the product stack in blind trust of the manufacturers model labels.

Now it's clear how companies get away with renaming their old products in a new lineup.

Rational people wait for 3rd party reviews of the actual performance and consider the current price that performance costs. This is why reviewers often end up recommending something other than the new product because pricing is bad for performance. Not a single point is given or taken for the model number. It's the actual price and actual performance that matters.

I assure you I dispense opinions on many things I don't own and it's not special that I occasionally comment on things I do own (and overpaid for I might add).

 

[Murphy]

I thought you were a myth. Someone who buys the product stack in blind trust of the manufacturers model labels.

I don't, what part of comparing models and prices between product stacks was it you didn't get. If an RX 560 cost me £100 then I'd expect the any new x60 series card to cost a similar price and offer better performance.

Without that you may as well charge £250 for something that's only worth £150 at best...Oh wait.

Now it's clear how companies get away with renaming their old products in a new lineup.

Yea because that's what they do, they don't touch a single thing and just slap a new label on it.

Rational people wait for 3rd party reviews of the actual performance and consider the current price that performance costs. This is why reviewers often end up recommending something other than the new product because pricing is bad for performance. Not a single point is given or taken for the model number. It's the actual price and actual performance that matters.

Yes and rational people expect a x60 series or (whatever) to sit in a similar position and have a similar price as the previous product stack because that's literally why model numbers exist, if the model number doesn't matter and it's only about performance then we may as well give cards random names, people can buy the dog card one year, the cat next year, and the owl next year. What cards the best? Who knows, go read a 3rd party reviews of the actual performance and consider the current price that performance costs.

I assure you I dispense opinions on many things I don't own and it's not special that I occasionally comment on things I do own (and overpaid for I might add).

So the short answer is yes, yes you are butt-hurt at the idea of someone saying your GPU is considered a low-end card and because you paid the equivalent of an RX 590 price and got a RX 560, gotcha.

 

[Hotwired]

I don't, what part of comparing models and prices between product stacks was it you didn't get. If an RX 560 cost me £100 then I'd expect the any new x60 series card to cost a similar price and offer better performance.

Without that you may as well charge £250 for something that's only worth £150 at best...Oh wait.

Yea because that's what they do, they don't touch a single thing and just slap a new label on it.

Yes and rational people expect a x60 series or (whatever) to sit in a similar position and have a similar price as the previous product stack because that's literally why model numbers exist, if the model number doesn't matter and it's only about performance then we may as well give cards random names, people can buy the dog card one year, the cat next year, and the owl next year. What cards the best? Who knows, go read a 3rd party reviews of the actual performance and consider the current price that performance costs.

So the short answer is yes, yes you are butt-hurt at the idea of someone saying your GPU is considered a low-end card and because you paid the equivalent of an RX 590 price and got a RX 560, gotcha.

This is quite pathetic from you as a poor diversion for having no rational reason for putting forward price for product stack position as your reasoning for bad value.

Poor value current cards certainly are but price for the product stack position is as I said, insane. I have never heard of someone so happily say they count up the number of cards above and below the one they're looking at to decide if it's good value.

 

[NZXT30]

There was also a phase where selling your old card paid for a lot of the new card, it was all about the timing. In some cases for example people were selling their 5700XT and getting a 3060Ti with some change, this is a fantastic upgrade where you got fresh warranty and a few pints.

Ask the 2080ti owners how that went for them when they sold the moment 3xxx series were announced.

 

[gpuerrilla]

Ask the 2080ti how that went for them when they sold the moment 3xxx series were announced.

Darwin covered this a while ago. Although those that didn't fomo also sold them for a profit and got a 3080.

 

[Murphy]

This is quite pathetic from you as a poor diversion for having no rational reason for putting forward price for product stack position as your reasoning for bad value.

Poor value current cards certainly are but price for the product stack position is as I said, insane. I have never heard of someone so happily say they count up the number of cards above and below the one they're looking at to decide if it's good value.

So what do you think the model number indicates?

Why not just call the next lot of cards random names and charge twice as much for them?

Why not make the next x60 series card the highest performance card and the x90's the lowest?

I didn't say "count up the number of cards above and below the one they're looking at to decide if it's good value" but i guess if you're having to misrepresent what i said you probably understand how weak your argument is, i said...

3 years ago the price you've listed for the 6600 was the average selling price of AMD cards, now all it gets you is a low end card.

If you don't think the 6600 is a low end card then where would you place it? Is it a mid-range card, a high-end, what?

 

[andybird123]

This is quite pathetic from you as a poor diversion for having no rational reason for putting forward price for product stack position as your reasoning for bad value.

Poor value current cards certainly are but price for the product stack position is as I said, insane. I have never heard of someone so happily say they count up the number of cards above and below the one they're looking at to decide if it's good value.

You're being quite irrational. I typically buy xx80 or xx80ti cards. In the past I've paid prices like £500-650 for an xx80 or xx80ti card. I currently have a 3080 and to get an upgrade AT ALL from this I'm expected to pay basically £1300. Now, I'm looking at that from the perspective of "I would normally buy an xx80 card", but really that's is irrelevant, because even using your metric, £1300 for the performance being offered is insane when I already have what I have from over 2 years ago at less than half the price.

In my case the xx80 indicated it had a die size of 628mm2 for £650. This gen it indicates a die size 378mm2 for £1300.

People aren't "counting the number of cards above and below", that's class A strawmanning from yourself. People do look at xx60 Vs 70 Vs 80 as a rough guide because for over a decade those numbers have been somewhat of an indicator of price (which is one important half of your own metric you've decided is the only valid one, like that's not just some attempt at confirmation bias).

 

[Zarax]

SO much arguing about semantics here.
How about the good old "this is my budget: do I get a significant improvement for the money I'm ready to spend?"

 

[Hotwired]

So what do you think the model number indicates?

Why not just call the next lot of cards random names and charge twice as much for them?

Why not make the next x60 series card the highest performance card and the x90's the lowest?

I didn't say "count up the number of cards above and below the one they're looking at to decide if it's good value" but i guess if you're having to misrepresent what i said you probably understand how weak your argument is, i said...

If you don't think the 6600 is a low end card then where would you place it? Is it a mid-range card, a high-end, what?

I think the model number is a shockingly bad indicator of actual performance. It is a vague indicator of relative performance but has absolutely zero connection to actual performance.

I'm reading you claiming misrepresentation after you spend 3 posts trying to bait me with a scenario that you invented as a personal attack diversion. But I can reply that no I'm not misrepresenting you because you did say this:

3 years ago the price you've listed for the 6600 was the average selling price of AMD cards, now all it gets you is a low end card.

That's price vs product stack (and therefore value) and you're measuring by

If you're using a "tangible measurement of resolution and RT being a defining feature of it today" then tell me how many desktop Radeon GPUs of today are lower and higher than it, simple there's at most two under it and at least 9 above because that's how the manufacture has defined the "tangible measurement of resolution and RT being a defining feature of it today" when they gave it a model number.

Counting the cards.

Thus we end up with you counting the cards above and below the one you're looking at to decide if its good value...

What do I think the 6600 is?

Low end is a totally arbitrary label. A 6600 is a strong 1080p card that can sometimes do 1440p. That's a tangible user experience that makes sense to refer to.

High end these days means running high resolutions and RT. A completely self imposed luxury tax that has absolutely zero gating on playing the same game without those.

A strong 1080p card 3 years ago cost you more than it does today. When the 6600 launched that was not the case because of horrific pricing.

But todays prices are not particularly bad to get a specific gaming experience as opposed to buying an arbitrary position on the product stack.

SO much arguing about semantics here.
How about the good old "this is my budget: do I get a significant improvement for the money I'm ready to spend?"

The only logical way to look at buying a graphics card.

 

[Woodsta888]

SO much arguing about semantics here.
How about the good old "this is my budget: do I get a significant improvement for the money I'm ready to spend?"

Indeed, you only need all this new stuff if you are trying to run a high resolution, high hz display. No one NEEDS one.

No one is entitled to run a 4k panel at 120 fps to go PC gaming. Afford it if you want. Can PC game to a much more acceptable budget if you go back to 2560x1440 which was apparently, the sweet spot, don't need any more, cant see the difference.

If only the price hate would be pointed at all the other components too that have increased in price. I mean AM5 MOBO - they START at ~£300!, CPU's at £500+. PSU's are going £300+, The increased costs of all the other components will clear the upgrade in GPU, stay last platform, save money and put it towards the GPU, Only benchers and keen overclockers need the best of the best in all components. YEs a 7950X/13900 will give you, at 4k, a few extra FPS - you'll never notice it playing a game over, say a 5800X3D. IMpressive as they are, overclcokers, tuners, benchers like LTMAtt can show you what they do, but much time is spent sourcing even the best components, steppings or bins from components, crucial for making top scores in benchmarks. Gaming - spend onthe GPU then build around it to get you 99%+ of what the top components will give you. x570 MPOBO's on release started at £150........x670's are £280+

We've all been as rich as we're gonna see for a long while................

Quality of life is going south, for all, except the very wealthy.

Happy Friday n all that

 

[Twinz]

Manufacturers can scribble whatever name they want on a box. The "product stack" for any generation is little more than marketing.

We should focus on how much performance we get and for how much money.

 

[Zarax]

Manufacturers can scribble whatever name they want on a box. The "product stack" for any generation is little more than marketing.

We should focus on how much performance we get and for how much money.

Performance per currency unit is what I care about.
Arguably RT kind of made things more complicated but then we might argue it's the new "ultra" setting.
Up to 2019 300€ got you 1080p/60/ultra, after that we might get that for raster but definitely not for RT.

 

[Murphy]

I think the model number is a shockingly bad indicator of actual performance. It is a vague indicator of relative performance but has absolutely zero connection to actual performance.

So you think cards with lower numbers perform better than those with higher numbers do you?

I'm reading you claiming misrepresentation after you spend 3 posts trying to bait me with a scenario that you invented as a personal attack diversion. But I can reply that no I'm not misrepresenting you because you did say this:

That's price vs product stack (and therefore value) and you're measuring by

Says the person who threw his toys out the pram because someone said his GPU was a low-end card.

Counting the cards.

Thus we end up with you counting the cards above and below the one you're looking at to decide if its good value...

Maybe you should try reading what you quoted from me as it makes no mention of 'value'

What do I think the 6600 is?

Your faux outrage at someone calling the card you paid high-end money for a low-end card. You being unable to say where in the product stack you'd place a 6600. You being unable to accept that you're part of the problem.

 

[Loosecannon]

My current graphics card is a £2080ti. Bought for around £1100 in July 2019… so that’s almost 4 years of use and equivalent to £300 a year. It will get repurposed to my sons pc as it is still a serviceable card.

If I go with my current plan of a 4090, that’s going to be £700 more, but I am unlikely to get a screen resolution more than my current ultrawide, so looking at it being another 4-5 year purchase. On those grounds, and the simple fact most of my gaming is on a pc, I think it can be justified.

Not that I like paying that much, but the performance/cost does seem worth it compared to a 4080…

 

[CuriousTomCat]

I currently have a 3080 and to get an upgrade AT ALL from this I'm expected to pay basically £1300.

Surely it's a good thing that the 3080 is future proofed for another generation? You save a lot of money.

 

[andybird123]

Surely it's a good thing that the 3080 is future proofed for another generation? You save a lot of money.

My kids get my old card, so one of my kids is stuck on a 1080ti, Wont Someone Think of The Children!!

 

[Hotwired]

So you think cards with lower numbers perform better than those with higher numbers do you?

Says the person who threw his toys out the pram because someone said his GPU was a low-end card.

Maybe you should try reading what you quoted from me as it makes no mention of 'value'

Your faux outrage at someone calling the card you paid high-end money for a low-end card. You being unable to say where in the product stack you'd place a 6600. You being unable to accept that you're part of the problem.

It's an endless stream of drivel as you conjure smear scenarios and complain that I won't play along.

I went past your original post three times thinking it was weird before deciding to post saying your logic was terrible. Prices suck and I thought it would be some kind of badly written take about price to performance.

But finding out you were complaining about price because it disrupted a compulsive habit of buying X position in the stack is so bizzare to hear on a tech forum.

The people buying "the best" sure that happens a lot but buying X that isn't the top in the product stack just because of its position. Well it explains a lot about manufacturers screwing with labels to exploit buyers.

If it helps you sleep then keep imagining my posts are a hate crime but I got an answer out of you about your weird post even if it's worse than I expected.

 

[Murphy]

It's an endless stream of drivel as you conjure smear scenarios and complain that I won't play along.

I went past your original post three times thinking it was weird before deciding to post saying your logic was terrible. Prices suck and I thought it would be some kind of badly written take about price to performance.

But finding out you were complaining about price because it disrupted a compulsive habit of buying X position in the stack is so bizzare to hear on a tech forum.

The people buying "the best" sure that happens a lot but buying X that isn't the top in the product stack just because of its position. Well it explains a lot about manufacturers screwing with labels to exploit buyers.

If it helps you sleep then keep imagining my posts are a hate crime but I got an answer out of you about your weird post even if it's worse than I expected.

Say the person who started all this by throwing their toys out the pram because someone said his card was low-end.

And the person making things up out of nowhere like the twaddle about "complaining about price because it disrupted a compulsive habit of buying X position in the stack" when i made no mention of buying X position in the stack. I told you numerous times now that i said "3 years ago the price you've listed for the 6600 was the average selling price of AMD cards, now all it gets you is a low end card." and that low-end is dictated by the manufacturer and model number. You attempted to dispute that and then stated to throw in rubbish about performance, value, price, and goodness knows what else in your vain attempt to justify your asinine comment about a 6600 not being a low-end card.

Also "hate crime", you've lost the plot.

You feel like saying what a 6600 is if it's not a low-end card yet? Or are you going to repeat that same non-answer you gave last time.

 

[Hotwired]

Keep editing it til you're done getting the desperate smear in that it's a hate crime in or I dunno, just write it properly the first time.

After all if you don't get a diversion to stick that you're stuck with the unavoidable fact that buying for stack position is absurd.