Where is the first floor?

[glenimp617]

Why didn't you highlight more of that sentence....at ground level?

do you agree there is a difference between floor and elevation, and that the english language (at times) has words with multiple meanings?

 

[glenimp617]

of courses its a floor! who the hell disagreed ? Dont make me read this thread again.

oh, lots of people!

 

[dl8860]

You are trying to assign a numerical system based on natural numbers to floors. There is absolutely no reason to do this. The labels can be arbitrary and don't need to be a sequence of natural numbers, and thus arithmetic implications are irrelevant.

You could start labeling them alphabetically or use Egyptian glyphs.


Or, as used in American systems, all basement levels can simply be prefixed by the letter B and avoiding any need for 0. Thus the first floor you enter from the street can be labeled 1, the first basement can be B1.

If there is no reason in assigning a numerical system, why are you so bothered about calling the floor at zero elevation the first floor then?

The ENTIRE point is that we are assigning a numerical system for the very good reason that it helps us to navigate the building.

Calling Ground Floor the First Floor is rubbish as it means navigation in terms of numbers of floors travelled between becomes very tricky if you have a basement as you go straight from 1 to -1.

People insistent on calling it the first floor as it is the first floor you get to, and the first floor that is built can't get their head round these two 'facts'. The reality is, if you can get your head around it (it's really not that hard), then you can have a much more practical floor numbering system that actually works using simple maths.

Thread of the year btw

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

Is anyone being ironic or is this really a discussion with 541 responses?

 

[Efour]

Is anyone being ironic or is this really a discussion with 541 responses?

im thinking 530ish are

 

[Antar Bolaeisk]

Is anyone being ironic or is this really a discussion with 541 responses?

All of my replies were deadly serious.

Would you like some toes?

 

[glenimp617]

People insistent on calling it the first floor as it is the first floor you get to, and the first floor that is built can't get their head round these two 'facts'.

I think the reason that this thread has gotten so far as 18 pages, is that people know the difference between floor, floor and elevation, but decide (for whatever reason) to ignore anyone who talks about the later and carries on and on and on trying to make their point.

Floor - the physical object
Floor - as in elevation

a builder builds a floor, it's on the ground....but it's the first floor he builds.

The building is built, you walk into it but do not go up the stairs to the next elevation, or down the stairs into the basement. The numbering system (UK 0) or (US 1) is only a numbering system so people can navigate throughout the building.

Now....posters need to understand what it is people are talking about before hitting the reply button

In my posts I have been talking about all types of "floor". The chronilogical order they were built, the elevation type of floor and so on

anyone want a mars bar?

 

[Raymond Lin]

A basement is also a floor.

Get your head around that glen.

 

[glenimp617]

A basement is also a floor.

Get your head around that glen.

Nope, I made that point a few pages back

 

[dl8860]

I think the reason that this thread has gotten so far as 18 pages, is that people know the difference between floor, floor and elevation, but decide (for whatever reason) to ignore anyone who talks about the later and carries on and on and on trying to make their point.

Floor - the physical object
Floor - as in elevation

a builder builds a floor, it's on the ground....but it's the first floor he builds.

The building is built, you walk into it but do not go up the stairs to the next elevation, or down the stairs into the basement. The numbering system (UK 0) or (US 1) is only a numbering system so people can navigate throughout the building.

Now....posters need to understand what it is people are talking about before hitting the reply button

In my posts I have been talking about all types of "floor". The chronilogical order they were built, the elevation type of floor and so on

anyone want a mars bar?

Well in terms of a naming convention, what is the point in talking about floors? Surely it's obvious that the point here is that we are talking about elevation and not physical floors? What would be the point in arguing about floor names? It's about a reference to the elevation, otherwise we may as well give them any name we like. It's about creating a reference based on convention in order to be useful.

 

[glenimp617]

Well in terms of a naming convention, what is the point in talking about floors? Surely it's obvious that the point here is that we are talking about elevation and not physical floors? What would be the point in arguing about floor names? It's about a reference to the elevation, otherwise we may as well give them any name we like. It's about creating a reference based on convention in order to be useful.

well if we all through like that, this thread would only have been a page long think of all the laughs we've had

 

[Judgeneo]

Mezzanine Levels

Are these fractions of a floor?

Can you get a floor 0.5?

 

[Tuppy_Glossop]

think of all the laughs we've had

Like shark 0

 

[Haggisman]

a builder builds a floor, it's on the ground....but it's the first floor he builds.

And this is where your argument falls down.

The ground floor is not necessarily the first floor which is built, and therefore if you have a floor numbering system which is based on the chronological order that the floors were built, you have no fixed reference point. What might be the first floor in one building, would be the 3rd floor in another, the basement in another, and the roof level in yet another.

There's no consistency, and therefore it isn't a viable system as it causes confusion.

I also have no idea why you're trying to argue that point at all, because it isn't the American system anyway.

 

[cypto]

Yes.

I'm British, not American.

Top Floor
Top Floor - 1
Top Floor - 2
...
...
Second Floor
First Floor
Ground Floor

kd

I'm British, not American.

Top Floor
Top Floor - 1
Top Floor - 2
...

What the hell is this?

You've open a whole new can of worms now, haven't you.

What is this Top Floor -1 malerky? Shouldn't it be...

Top Floor (or Seventh Floor for numbers in a lift.)
...
...
...
...
Third Floor
Second Floor
First Floor
Ground Floor

 

[mrk]

Can you get a floor 0.5?

Yes.

 

[Haggisman]

Yes.

http://i.imgur.com/jOA9lb0.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Just make sure you don't phone Cambridge fire service if you get stuck there! :p

 

[glenimp617]

And this is where your argument falls down.

I'm not arguing anything

The ground floor is not necessarily the first floor which is built,

in this case it is, because I went outside and spoke to the builder

and therefore if you have a floor numbering system which is based on the chronological order that the floors were built,

I'm not using it as a numbering system though

you have no fixed reference point. What might be the first floor in one building, would be the 3rd floor in another, the basement in another, and the roof level in yet another.

Correct

There's no consistency, and therefore it isn't a viable system as it causes confusion.

You could read the building plans, like I said, for the general visitors to the building, they would be using the UK or US 'numbering system'. Nothing to do with the chronological order the floors were built

It's a fact....you build a floor....that's the first one you build.

I also have no idea why you're trying to argue that point at all, because it isn't the American system anyway.

I'm not arguing anything

 

[Raymond Lin]

When a reasonable argument relating to numbers (-1, -2, 0, 1, 2) is presented.

It is ignored and put aside.

When a comparison to a mathematical model is presented – bipolar, polar is presented.

It is ignored and put side.

The only reasoning I have seen to call the ground floor the first floor is this.

"It is the first floor you walk into when you enter a building."

Let's think of this carefully.

"The first floor you walk into."

The term here, first floor isn't in terms of numbers, it is relating to the entrance, one could argue the main entrance. Where in lies the problem.

Is it:

1 – first floor you walk into for you?
2 – first floor you walk into for most people?
3 – first floor the architect intended most people enter?

This is a subjective and objective answer, lets say the most common one, the one most people enter. At ground level.

What if over the course of the life of the building, the surround of the building changes that a bridge was built on the 2nd floor of the building attaching it to the nearby shopping centre, which is connected to the railway line which 90% of the commuters now arrive at, so they no longer need to access the pavement outside.

Now you have a problem. The first floor (which using the meaning of the first floor you enter) is now suddenly become higher. The old first floor has become L1?

That is absolutely bonkers.

You cannot say the first floor is the first floor you enter. You can't even say it’s the first floor that it was built because if you have a building with subterraine levels then you build that first.

Go to Hong Kong, you can enter a building in about 3 different ways, from the street level, there is often a undergruond level where it is connected to the underground MTR, and there is a bridge on 1st or even 2nd floor (2nd and 3rd floor to you glen). All these floors are use frequently and all busy.

Basically, to call a floor the 1st floor merely because you put up a wall and a door – absurd.
To call a floor because it is the 1st floor it is built – absurd
To call a floor the 1st floor because it is the first floor you enter – absurd.

All 3 of these are variables that can change and varied from building to building. What is constant is the ground and the street outside. That is the most consistent thing between most buildings (I said most because someone will bring up a building on a hill example).

There you go glen, feel free to quote the bit that suit you and ignore the rest.

/sigh.

 

[glenimp617]

The only reasoning I have seen to call the ground floor the first floor is this.

"It is the first floor you walk into when you enter a building."

OR, it's the FIRST floor a builder lays down. Multiple meaning. It might not be, but it could be

There you go glen, feel free to quote the bit that suit you and ignore the rest.

Have done

/sigh.

You love this thread as much as I do