why all the hate for hs2?

doodah said:
Yeah, it's definitely dropped a bit....

2012 - 1.80-2.50:1
2019 - 0.6:1

Edit - different sources, pinch of salt.
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Wow worse than I expected. Its sure to drop to 0.3:1 by the time the Torys and their donors have fed in the troughs.

May as well have given every man, woman and child £1,606 each as a tax free lump sum.
 
GIBURROWS said:
Doesn't it only speed up certain journeys by at most an hour?
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Not even that. It saves 29 minutes.

The Department for Transport says the project will cut Birmingham to London journey times from one hour 21 minutes to 52 minutes.
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But that means loads more people will be happy to commute to London to work there...............
 
Malevolence said:
And not just any woodland either, they're also tearing down ancient woodland too.
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It's a disgrace. And it's why we will never avoid climate disaster.

I am totally convinced by the time the world decided '**** this is really bad' it will be far too late. Greed and personal gain is too important.

Even for 'no benefit' projects like this they are happy to destroy swathes of habitat... What hope is there?

what about when it truly costs us? Ugh. Disgusting
 
Whoever did their PR needs sacking, the time saving is a tiny benefit compared to the amount of capacity HS2 unlocks.

108 (out of around 52,000) ancient woods will be affected, and that's worst case scenario, HS2 themselves put it even lower (numbers from woodland trust). While the loss of any tree is sad, especially ones that are so difficult to replace, we need to be shifting from cars and planes domestically.
 
So how did it get justified if so many "normal" people can see that it is a waste, unnecessary and unjustified?

For 108 billion I'd want the transporter from star trek!
 
explicit4u said:
Whoever did their PR needs sacking, the time saving is a tiny benefit compared to the amount of capacity HS2 unlocks.
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Is that capacity unlock based on the wild promises of hugely faster trains and vast numbers of trains per hour that no other railway in the world can run and no one thinks can be run on HS2? ie more lies and exaggeration as to what we will get out of HS2 in the hopes of distracting from the astronomically rising costs.
 
GIBURROWS said:
So how did it get justified if so many "normal" people can see that it is a waste, unnecessary and unjustified?

For 108 billion I'd want the transporter from star trek!
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I'd also want a USS Enterprise as well for that amount of money.

Wasting money to make rich people richer whilst destroying wildlife...go go politicians.
 
413x said:
It's a disgrace. And it's why we will never avoid climate disaster.

I am totally convinced by the time the world decided '**** this is really bad' it will be far too late. Greed and personal gain is too important.

Even for 'no benefit' projects like this they are happy to destroy swathes of habitat... What hope is there?

what about when it truly costs us? Ugh. Disgusting
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That doest really make sense though does it.

A couple of full electric train trips replacing individual car journeys is going to save more carbon than a few trees entire lives.


The whole "tree's will save us" thing is bs

Over a lifetime of 100 years, one tree could absorb around a tonne of CO2.
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In 2019, CO2 emissions per capita for United Kingdom was 5.45 tons of CO2 per capita.
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Trees are kinda meaningless in the climate debate
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Trees, shrubs, etc are all about habitat and wildlife which can be mitigated to a certain extent.

Most CO2 is taken up by microbes in the oceans.
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The surely farming should be our focus given our "countryside" is just a depressingly vast industrial landscape of agriculture
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
It doesn’t even need to be a link to London, where I used to live shot up in value overnight when the last few miles of dual carriageway on the A11 which connects Norfolk to the rest of the world were duelled and the locally infamous Elevden Crossroads traffic lights were taken out.

It took less than 10 mins off journey times through normal rush hour. Fri/Mon on a bank holiday weekend used to be horrific mind you can see caravans for miles in the traffic queue and are now much better.
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Until the developers move in and the cycle repeats itself. Case in point around Barnstaple it used to be a quiet backwater until someone decided "we need a bypass" so they build a massive road and a huge bridge over the estuary which leads a wedge of land between the old road and the new just ripe for development so its a mini wild west boomtown down there right now housing estates and retail are mushrooming almost overnight and of course so does the traffic to match until one day someone will say "you know what we need, we need a bypass..."

There was a huge campaign for years to get a bypass built for Worthing they were clamouring for it signs and placards by the side of the road you name it. It was bound to happen but for some reason it never did and now its all died away and so has the development pressure they realise theres no new intrastructure coming so they've moved the bulldozers somewhere else. The road is still busy heavy at rushhour of course but nowhere near as bad as London.
 
GreatAuk said:
Will save nearly an hour from cities further north to London though (eg Manchester, Carlisle, Glasgow)
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Except that at the moment its only going to manchester, with the rest of the scheme looking like it will be shelved. It might even yet stop at Birmingham.

But yeah, it knocks an hour off the Manchester to London time from 2 hrs 7mins currently to 1 hour 7 minutes.
 
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