Why are some people so against others doing well

[CREATIVE!11]

I was about to post the same thing in response to porushinobu and Ayahuasca's posts.

Whilst I'm sure they are perfectly "happy" with all that money - I do feel kind of sorry for some of them in that they'll never really be able to have that sense of achievement of struggling through hard times, making necessary sacrifices, and "earning" something for themselves. They'll never truly appreciate what they've got, because they've never experienced life without.

It's not about what you get in life sometimes, it's about the person you are becoming.

 

[porushinobu]

That is where you draw your line.

Is it wrong that someone else should draw theirs in a different place?

Whilst my above examples are purposely exaggerated, it was an attempt to firstly show the different life situations of different people can lead to the same decisions and in the end the same result, and that people making these decisions are not necessarily cold hearted demons. It was also to show that invariably most people will choose their own lives and success/possessions/family/house over those of others.

Now earlier on you said you would prefer to see us working together as a species, yet here you say you would forsake all morals for the survival of your family (if you had one). That is presumably because you would place more importance on them than other people you earlier said you wanted to work together with.

If a person places the same importance you would place on your family on themselves, can you really criticize them for being immoral?

Why is doing it for your family more moral than doing it for yourself?

my point is that some people dont even draw a line, they force their way through others to make their lives better even though they have plenty.

not all bankers are bad, but many of those at the top abuse[d] the system for their own gain. I am not saying that any one human is purely a good person, hell we all have our faults, but some are far worse than others.

I'm a banker, why do you lads hate me?

Ultimately I do not know you and as far as I know have never heard of you. I am unaware that you have done any wrong or right in your life so therefore I neither like you nor hate you. However, abuse the system and then I will hate you, it's just personal opinion. I barely trust any bank these days, for crying out loud, they lost a lot of money, a portion of which was in my account at the time and had to be "Bailed out!!!". While I am glad they were saved and I still have money, the fact that they lost it througvh questionable business practices sickens me.

 

[Haggisman]

Perhaps you would not know about the dealings of your company in such depth, being a trainee and all. Do you think all those within the church were aware their establishment held shares in the dubious money lender Wonga?

Well, the church is hardly an example of upstanding morals at the best of times

 

[porushinobu]

Well, the church is hardly an example of upstanding morals at the best of times

That is a perfect point

 

[Eurofighter]

By doing well you mean get loads of money. The reason people are against it is because life isn't all about money.

 

[Rroff]

Many different ways to look at it but those at both ends of the extremes, those that trample on others to get richer than rich and those who can't stand to see people better off than themselves are equally loathsome.

 

[Eurofighter]

Yes, too much envy is a bad thing. Some people do just wish they had more money and so insult those with what they want but cannot have.

 

[dowie]

I think the answer to this depends on where that money comes from and what other consequences it has...

I'm sure the majority of people wouldn't think twice about getting say, £25k for nothing.

When you tell them that £25k is someone else's salary for a year and without it they will lose their home, their family, etc., I wonder how many would change their mind?

if someone wants to put their salary at risk like that then that's their call....

 

[dowie]

Parental wealth and education demographics are the strongest causal factor in children's attainment at school. Just google "factors in child attainment" for lots of research papers and articles on the matter.

Since this is a fact, and it is also a fact that you cannot have any choice in the matter of your parentage, it seems strange that many insist that everything someone achieves in life is down to their own choices. And that there's no "luck" involved.

Indeed - luck/chance plays a huge part in everyone's lives... lots of people are completely blind to it.

 

[Meridian]

By doing well you mean get loads of money. The reason people are against it is because life isn't all about money.

The only people who say this are the ones who don't have any. The whole basis and culture of capitalist countries is money.

 

[Deleted member 61728]

The rich get richer.
The rich take advantage of the poor for their own profit.
The rich pay minimal if any tax and hide their money very well in small countries.
The rich can skirt easily around a lot of legal matters where lower classes cannot quite so easily simply by throwing money at lawyers.
The rich buy up property even if they don't need to for status and profit and this makes it much harder for the average Joe to own their very first property.
The rich put minimal money back into the economy and its up to the lower classes to pay the difference.

Everyone hates people on benefits but what about the rich especially those bankers who got away with massive international fraud they ain't talked about much are they?

 

[Xordium]

I don't tend to focus on what others may view me as too much, so your last line is the one I don't totally agree with. I think trying to be all things to all people is simply an untenable position and trying to match value systems is therefore pointless. People who may see you are the creator of problems for others may in fact be totally wrong, might miss the good you do or of course might be right, but spending time focussing to much no this is a downwards spiral.

I didn't mean everyone does most I would assume get on with their own lives I know I do and care little about what other people get up to unless they directly impinge on me or my own. And this street goes both ways I live in a very very affluent area and there a groups who look down on people who have not succeeded (by their terms ie very high financial) and exclude people based upon that criteria. I think we are classed as one of the "poorer" families and I know for a fact some parents encourage their kids to mix with their "own" and we are hardly short of a few quid by most peoples standards. I wouldn't attribute this to wealth directly but more indicative of the type of person that some jobs that give wealth attract. This suits me fine because I am not totally sure I actually want my kids making friends with kids who get BMWs for their 17th birthday. That of course is prejudice on my behalf those kids may well drive sensibly but my experience working in Intensive Care Units tells me the chances are not likely.

 

[Efour]

True financial success in a capitalist society means the exploitation of others.

If you don't own the means of production you are one of its cogs, a bigger one or a very small one.

That combined with everyone loves a good moan. Moaning with your peers against "X" is always fun.

 

[porushinobu]

Indeed - luck/chance plays a huge part in everyone's lives... lots of people are completely blind to it.

If you believe in luck, which I do, it makes me feel better when my constant effort fails infront of me and I am once again sent back to square one.

 

[BuffetSlayer]

Well, the church is hardly an example of upstanding morals at the best of times

That is a perfect point

It is irrelevant.

The point was that many members of an establishment had absolutely no idea that their establishment was involved in supporting a morally dubious finance company.

The same would be true for any company you may choose to work for. You would not be privy to all of the financial (or any other) aspects of that business. If you were at board level, then perhaps, but that would be a small percentage of people compared to the overall amount employed within the company.

So to state that you would never work for someone who are operating in a morally questionable manner is naive, and simply unrealistic.

 

[Efour]

Luck ? Really?

No its all about who you know and personality/charisma calculated risk vs reward.

 

[porushinobu]

It is irrelevant.

The point was that many members of an establishment had absolutely no idea that their establishment was involved in supporting a morally dubious finance company.

The same would be true for any company you may choose to work for. You would not be privy to all of the financial (or any other) aspects of that business. If you were at board level, then perhaps, but that would be a small percentage of people compared to the overall amount employed within the company.

So to state that you would never work for someone who are operating in a morally questionable manner is naive, and simply unrealistic.

The other side of this argument is adding the "where possible" to the end of the "I would not work for morally deficient individuals" statement. I am in a job where I help others, okay I am being exploited and underpaid but I still help others, I have a high moral standing in this job and sacrafice everything i earn to personal survival because of said exploitation

 

[[TW]Fox]

especially those bankers who got away with massive international fraud they ain't talked about much are they?

They are talked about constantly, to the point of boredom. Yes, we get it, everyone hates bankers for reasons they probably don't understand. Because, you know, all of the hundreds of thousands of people in the banking industry were the ones making millions from risky investments, right.

 

[BuffetSlayer]

The other side of this argument is adding the "where possible" to the end of the "I would not work for morally deficient individuals" statement. I am in a job where I help others, okay I am being exploited and underpaid but I still help others, I have a high moral standing in this job and sacrafice everything i earn to personal survival because of said exploitation

I am sure that if what you say above is what Haggisman meant, he would have said so

Back you your post - So, you don't feel that your employer exploiting you for their own ends is morally questionable? Or are you saying you do and simply accept it because you need the money?

You help people in your job but by doing so you earn your company money so that they can exploit even more people. How many others would they have to be exploiting for you too feel the balance tips into the realms of your continued employment becoming untenable?

 

[porushinobu]

I am sure that if what you say above is what Haggisman meant, he would have said so

Back you your post - So, you don't feel that your employer exploiting you for their own ends is morally questionable? Or are you saying you do and simply accept it because you need the money?

You help people in your job but by doing so you earn your company money so that they can exploit even more people. How many others would they have to be exploiting for you too feel the balance tips into the realms of your continued employment becoming untenable?

I accept it not just because I need to survive but because I am not being told to do something morally questionable. However, I am in bitter hatred about it, there's is not a day that goes by when I say
"wheres my money"
"I want my proper pay"
hell my team leader who is in agreement with em on this is angry with HR and the higher ups because he may lose me for this and several others in our team because, even with the proper grade we are underpaid compared to others in our line of work in other companies.