Until people appreciate that no matter how much opportunity you give many people, they will waste it. If you simply won't accept that or seek to rationalise and proportion the reasons as to why in other directions or to seek other causes you are misguided and not idealistic, but naive.
Why are some people so against others doing well
- Thread starter Catanonia
- Start date
Until people appreciate that no matter how much opportunity you give many people, they will waste it. If you simply won't accept that or seek to rationalise and proportion the reasons as to why in other directions or to seek other causes you are misguided and not idealistic, but naive.
Probably because the system isn't fair and works on the basis that some of us are born genetically inferior or into inferior environments.
Some people are doomed from birth to have a pretty poor existence and some are destined for riches. There is a real lack of social responsibility to ensure society moves as a unit and not as a demonstration of survival of the fittest.
Some people are doomed from birth to have a pretty poor existence and some are destined for riches. There is a real lack of social responsibility to ensure society moves as a unit and not as a demonstration of survival of the fittest.
But it is the system and the reasons the fit survive is because they are simply better at surviving. Why the people who start from hardship and make great riches succeed is because we are all different and can't keep seeking to lay the blame elsewhere. I agree that circumstance does hold some people back, no question of that, but in the same way so does the fact many people are unable or unwilling to put the required effort in or to lazy and will always seek to lay the blame for this at other peoples feet. THIS is the reason why trying to get society to all be the same and have the same chance will not work. Some people will take the chance, many won't and then you go back again and try to understand why some people don't take that chance and we start again, whilst those that did get annoyed at those who don't or were too stupid, lazy, unwilling or unable to take the chanced given to them. Sure, we will help some more people succeed, but fact is the people who don't will still be the people who don't in the main, no matter what chance you give them.
Soldato
Well said Housey, everything. 
It is interesting. When I attended the school a few weeks back, I asked the audience who knew or who had an idea of what they would like to be. Maybe 5 kids put their hands up with a clear view of what they wanted to be. I am good at working an audience and got some really good engagement, but frankly very few had thought about it. I think there were circa 100 kids in the audience. I then asked them who wants kids. I would say 95% of the audience put their hands up. I found that interesting as it shows how, in a working class environment, how the mindset is defined by circumstance and by those around you.
I asked both questions as at their age I had no idea and I answered the "who wants kids" question the same. I then went on to say that for me kids didn't and now can't happen (so don't view it as a choice always) and I wished I had thought longer and harder about what I wanted to do at their age. I didn't feel it would have helped me make more money or succeed more, just to do things quicker and perhaps easier if i had planned more and taken time to own my career path earlier.
I think having a plan, or not having one is where it all starts to go wrong as most people don't from an early age and frankly, just bumble a long until they retire or die. My closest friends have virtually all done well so most have their kids going through private school and all of their kids, pretty much, have a view of there next 10 years. So it is clear that circumstance and luck certainly influence, but my argument is that this is all it is, one of many influences. It comes down to personality and character to really make a go of it and I would always put that over circumstance or luck, personally.
You simply will never make everyone equal even with identical influences, education and opportunity to suggest otherwise is, frankly, stupid. If you ever get the chance to spend time working with kids to help them in anyway have some different perspectives I urge you to do so. I found it very satisfying to give them a view from the front. My view was I could keep moaning about the state of kids coming into work to my colleagues, with their usual lack of preparation, or I could do my bit, no matter how small, to try and influence one or two to do it better. Really glad I decided to put a few days a year aside to spend some time giving them a different perspective.
I asked both questions as at their age I had no idea and I answered the "who wants kids" question the same. I then went on to say that for me kids didn't and now can't happen (so don't view it as a choice always) and I wished I had thought longer and harder about what I wanted to do at their age. I didn't feel it would have helped me make more money or succeed more, just to do things quicker and perhaps easier if i had planned more and taken time to own my career path earlier.
I think having a plan, or not having one is where it all starts to go wrong as most people don't from an early age and frankly, just bumble a long until they retire or die. My closest friends have virtually all done well so most have their kids going through private school and all of their kids, pretty much, have a view of there next 10 years. So it is clear that circumstance and luck certainly influence, but my argument is that this is all it is, one of many influences. It comes down to personality and character to really make a go of it and I would always put that over circumstance or luck, personally.
You simply will never make everyone equal even with identical influences, education and opportunity to suggest otherwise is, frankly, stupid. If you ever get the chance to spend time working with kids to help them in anyway have some different perspectives I urge you to do so. I found it very satisfying to give them a view from the front. My view was I could keep moaning about the state of kids coming into work to my colleagues, with their usual lack of preparation, or I could do my bit, no matter how small, to try and influence one or two to do it better. Really glad I decided to put a few days a year aside to spend some time giving them a different perspective.
Soldato
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Wow! And this is from a GD replier! I'm genuinely shocked.
A person spends on average 20 years in their family home, it shouldn't be surprising that environment is the biggest factor in development.
I often find myself wondering "what if?" while grinding out another shift in my dead end job. I don't think me ending up there has been anyones fault, my family, myself or my environment.
Depression hit me in the last year of secondary school and I didn't recover properly until I was 23. Going from a bright lad who enjoyed going to school and excelling at all types of sports I pretty much fell to bits in the space of 6 months, lost all confidence, self esteem and with that my motivation for anything, I was a shell. Those years would probably have shaped my future a different way to how it's panned out, and I'll never get the chance that most of my peers got at fulfilling their potential unhindered.
I guess it's just how life is though, nothing is ever fair no matter how hard we try to make it so. Someone from my school may go on to be incredibly successful in life and at the age of 50 go through what I experienced and everything fall apart around them, I don't know what I would have preferred. At least I still have the chance to carve something out of the mess with the studying I'm doing now, but I've missed out on the school -> college -> uni ladder that a lot of people see as the main way to success and as failure if you don't (by people I mean employers).
Everybody has luck, just everyone has different levels of the good, the bad and the inconsequential. I try not to get too bitter about people that have quantities of cash that they would never spend in their lifetimes while others cannot afford to house, feed and cloth themselves one week to the next, because with that amount of cash I'd probably keep it all to myself as well, someone has to sit at the top right?
Depression hit me in the last year of secondary school and I didn't recover properly until I was 23. Going from a bright lad who enjoyed going to school and excelling at all types of sports I pretty much fell to bits in the space of 6 months, lost all confidence, self esteem and with that my motivation for anything, I was a shell. Those years would probably have shaped my future a different way to how it's panned out, and I'll never get the chance that most of my peers got at fulfilling their potential unhindered.
I guess it's just how life is though, nothing is ever fair no matter how hard we try to make it so. Someone from my school may go on to be incredibly successful in life and at the age of 50 go through what I experienced and everything fall apart around them, I don't know what I would have preferred. At least I still have the chance to carve something out of the mess with the studying I'm doing now, but I've missed out on the school -> college -> uni ladder that a lot of people see as the main way to success and as failure if you don't (by people I mean employers).
Everybody has luck, just everyone has different levels of the good, the bad and the inconsequential. I try not to get too bitter about people that have quantities of cash that they would never spend in their lifetimes while others cannot afford to house, feed and cloth themselves one week to the next, because with that amount of cash I'd probably keep it all to myself as well, someone has to sit at the top right?
It isn't
Well, genuinely shocked at the adult discussion in this GD thread. Well worth the read for view points.
Soldato
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I have been in the same situation as you from 18-21 I did go to uni but I didn't work as hard as I really could have, but realise too it's never to late to change things and do what you want. You can still go to uni if you so wish. It really is in your power to choose. You don't have to keep working that job.
"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now." You are only 23. The biggest changes in my life started then and now I'm in a VASTLY difference place 3 years down the line.
I'm almost 28 now
I've got a long way to go with my Open Uni degree, and with the responsibilities adulthood brings it isn't half as manageable as it would have been. I'm slowly coming to accept my role in society, and I'm ok with that.
Quite right too. It surprises me when I see people in their 20's talking as if their life is decided. Frankly, even in your 20's you are still starting out, you have much to learn and experience and every opportunity in the world to decide life's direction and that applies into your 30's, 40's and 50's too, you decide, no one else does.
Sure, as you get older the options reduce significantly, but never stay in a dead end or unsatisfying job just 'because'. Sit back, think about it and decide how you can change it. I understand the challenges of depression, it isn't easy and does impact things, but find time to analyse things and start to plan your way out of it with as positive a mind as you can muster.
Soldato
Exactly - I had that realisation when I was 26, I could have stayed in the same job - I wasn't earning a bad wage, but it was mind-numbingly boring/easy and I really didn't enjoy it.
Instead I moved out of my nice semi-detached house, and slept on my brother's floor whilst working 2 **** part time jobs for a year, so I could go back to uni and top up my mediocre HND to a BSc. Now I have a better paid job that I love, although I had to move half way across the country for it.
The problem is, many people aren't prepared to make sacrifices to get what they want. If your life isn't going the way you want it, you have to do something about it, rather than waiting for/expecting someone else to.
I do well and I have no problem with others doing well.
2 conditions
1. They earnt the money fairly with good business practise, no through screwing over partners, employees or customers. Or exploiting sweatshops in a third world country. If you play fairly to all your stakeholders then by all means - well done.
2. They pay their dues like everyone else - you want to be part of this society then you pay into the kitty. Stop being so ****ing greedy. If you don't like paying tax then don't live or operate a business here, make way for someone who wants to contribute to society.
And if you business profitability is contingent on your not paying tax then it's not a viable business - it's just a drain on society and a big "**** you" to the hardworking Mr. and Mrs. John Q Taxpayer
2 conditions
1. They earnt the money fairly with good business practise, no through screwing over partners, employees or customers. Or exploiting sweatshops in a third world country. If you play fairly to all your stakeholders then by all means - well done.
2. They pay their dues like everyone else - you want to be part of this society then you pay into the kitty. Stop being so ****ing greedy. If you don't like paying tax then don't live or operate a business here, make way for someone who wants to contribute to society.
And if you business profitability is contingent on your not paying tax then it's not a viable business - it's just a drain on society and a big "**** you" to the hardworking Mr. and Mrs. John Q Taxpayer
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Man of Honour
I'm the opposite, I like seeing people do well. I like to share the good buzz. 
We all judge success by a variety of measures. I know I have had differing interpretations over life what what I consider to be 'doing well'. We also have differing opinions of what we construe as things that will impinge on that capability in others. There within lies the problem. We all have a different value structure and whilst someone may see themselves as 'doing well' others according to their own value structure may see them as the archetypal creator of the problems of others.
Soldato
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I'm almost 28 now
I literally think anything before 40 is young. Even then you see some 40+ year olds crushing it. I remember seeing a poster of people who started massive companies and age they started it. I think the guy who started KFC was like 50 when he started the company, the guy who started wikipedia was like 40ish. I can't remember exactly but you get the jist.
It's good your doing open uni, keep going for it.
Like I said you are NEVER stuck.
This. I had to do the same, I sacrificed everything I had and had to move like you away from everybody to completely no friends.
It's weird this, not just strangers but also friends and family hold hidden resentment to certain aspects of a life they see as "better off".
I did ok relatively early after uni and saw how many of my "friends" showed bitterness and false sinserity when I bought cars, houses, paid for everything etc. - those "friends" are idiots though so I left them to it. Now they're all finally making it big in their careers I see how their outlook has changed, and I'm proud of them as I knew they'd make it eventually
Some people are born haters, they resent pretty much anything and everything regardless of the size. The majority follow the social 'tone' of the country and will complain about it if it is in the news (Jimmy Carr etc) but couldn't give two shoots when it isn't in their face. The rest are simply airing some incarnation of jealousy - strong term but technically acurate.
People need to live life how they want and forget about others - if you want to own a yacht then get off your ass and go make it happen, but don't get annoyed when Mr Rich sails past on his. I was always called a dreamer in school and my friends were warned to stay away from me haha if only they could see my "dreams" now
I did ok relatively early after uni and saw how many of my "friends" showed bitterness and false sinserity when I bought cars, houses, paid for everything etc. - those "friends" are idiots though so I left them to it. Now they're all finally making it big in their careers I see how their outlook has changed, and I'm proud of them as I knew they'd make it eventually
Some people are born haters, they resent pretty much anything and everything regardless of the size. The majority follow the social 'tone' of the country and will complain about it if it is in the news (Jimmy Carr etc) but couldn't give two shoots when it isn't in their face. The rest are simply airing some incarnation of jealousy - strong term but technically acurate.
People need to live life how they want and forget about others - if you want to own a yacht then get off your ass and go make it happen, but don't get annoyed when Mr Rich sails past on his. I was always called a dreamer in school and my friends were warned to stay away from me haha if only they could see my "dreams" now
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