Why are tradesmen so expensive

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Now see this is exactly the problem many non trades feel. They feel that often trades aren't that great and your paying premium for a poor service.
How to sort the good from the bad. And then sometimes the challenge is getting the good ones to want to do your job. My sisters father in law now retired, used to turn down lots of invitations to quote even.
he had a very good reputation, but even that I feel can be overrated, how is joe blogs with non of the expertise required to work out if for example a spark has correctly specified all the parts, done a good and safe install.
Take the example of that guys armoured cable fault, if it worked well he may well have recommended that spark to someone else as doing a good quick cheap job ;)

So what would you expectation have been in regards the first spark, did he not bother checking for an earth fault? And just jump to a conclusion of the most expensive piece of work needing to be done based on age of some sockets?

You sound like the sort of guy that most of us round here would cry out for to work on our jobs, where are you based? ;)
I'm based in the North West.

My opinion of the other electrician is that I don't think he was experienced. Apparently he is considerably older than me, maybe set in his ways. Possibly he has come out of an industrial setting where all he did all day was put up cable tray and make armoured glands off, so never really encountered a lot of faults.

Fault finding can be a dark art, it can be frustrating if you don't have a good technique of chasing it down and finding the problem. I guess I have a more systematic and analytical mind so I apply the correct methods until I get the result. Other people just get frustrated and think the best option for them, but not the customer, is to cut those cables out and run new ones in.

A lot of electricians blow a gasket when it comes to central heating. You have to understand that all of those programmers, thermostats, valves and pumps are just glorified switches. If you can wire a lighting circuit then you can wire a Y plan or S plan heating system.

I don't actually like electrics. Never really wanted to do it. I made some bad decisions and dropped out of university and now I find myself doing this. It pays well enough and I make a good living but I come home exhausted and at 35 year old my doctor says I have the early onset of arthritis and I have problems with my inner ear from breathing in dust and other crap.

I just think that in all walks of life some people have a professional attitude and others don't. Unfortunately the ones that do have a good work ethic don't always reap the fruits of the labours.
 
Take the example of that guys armoured cable fault, if it worked well he may well have recommended that spark to someone else as doing a good quick cheap job ;)

;)

I'm not a "trade" per se but one of the services I do is mobile phone repair, there is a guy round here that constantly gets recommended by people on facebook, despite being rude, constantly breaking things, and being very poor in terms of customer service.

He is generally seen as the guy to go to, and it is purely down to
1 - being cheap
2 - people not seeing the mess he makes inside of there phone through being completely hamfisted.

We however do see the mess he makes when some people bring there device to us after not being happy with him,
missing screws/ broken screw lugs, superglue everywhere, screens aren't fitted properly etc.
And that doesn't include the fact he uses inferior parts.

People can only judge him based on what they see as you quite rightly say, so if it works how are they to know any difference.
And he regularly gets recommended.
 
You need to get stuff done to an acceptable standard in a speedy time, otherwise your costs are going to be way too high compared to others quoting for the same work. Perhaps those should be the costs clients expect to pay, but that's just unlikely to happen generally.
And we're back to that triangle.
Others will indeed quote lower, but you'll get what you pay for and that's why people are complaining about trades.... because they won't pay for a good one.

If they want to actually work in construction.
No.
A standard is a standard. You don't have to actually be in the industry and put the guarantees on the work if you're only doing it as a hobby... but if you *could* do that if you wanted to and survive it, then that still counts as doing a job to a professional standard. I *can* do some mechanical jobs to a professional standard... but I'm not a professional mechanic. However, I didn't exactly Google it up, either!

Still irrelevant. The construction company either employs or subcontracts these "cowboys" and thinks their work is an acceptable professional standard. That means they warranty that work, ergo professional by your definition. :p
Legally binding?
Do they fix the problem as per the warranty?
Does the work last the full length of the guarantee?
If not, then it's NOT professional.

Hence why I gave some examples of both. ;)
Part and parcel of the same thing.

The issue is there's not an insignificant number of cowboys in the industry, many of whom will consider themselves professional and charge accordingly.
There are a number of people with driving licences. Doesn't mean they're *good* drivers, no matter how they consider themselves... Same applies here - Having a van with a sign on teh side doesn't make you a professional. Being a member of some industry body doesn't make you professional. Doing work to a measurably high standard and doing work that you can (and do) stand by is what makes you professional, and that is what separates them from the amateurs and cowboys - Amateurs aren't good enough and cowboys are liars. Simple as.

I've had not dissimilar sentiment a few times from my father, I end up doing it instead. :p Takes longer though.
I'm about to embark on a number of projects because, while it will take longer and cost me a lot more, I will get exactly what I want to my own specific design... That's what you get from D'ing IY, though.

When it comes to diy my wife thinks I am skilled in every trade.. oh you can do this and that its easy.......... Yeah right.
If it's that easy, she can do it herself.

And then sometimes the challenge is getting the good ones to want to do your job.
Well.... yeah.
You wouldn't expect the likes of Eric Clapton to jump at the chance to play lead for your teenage garage band, would you.... ?
Actually, having met and had to play for some of the clueless idiots who were actually allowed to lay hands on a guitar, I know for a fact they expect such things... Almost fun to watch them explode when said master musicians turn them down.
Part of the draw in being a self-employed master tradesman has always been the freedom to turn down the piddly little work. That's why artists had studios and craftsmen had apprentices!
 
And we're back to that triangle.
Others will indeed quote lower, but you'll get what you pay for and that's why people are complaining about trades.... because they won't pay for a good one.

That's one hell of an assumption.
You can pay plenty and still receive **** poor work. That may well be a "cowboy" but its not guaranteed to be one, maybe just someone who vastly overestimates his ability and messes up.

It still boils down to finding a good one isn't easy.
Past work is a useful guide but not necessarily a guarantee into quality.
 
That's one hell of an assumption.
You can pay plenty and still receive **** poor work. That may well be a "cowboy" but its not guaranteed to be one, maybe just someone who vastly overestimates his ability and messes up.
If they do mess up, they should still stand by their guarantee and put it right, then. Otherwise they are cowboys.
Plus you can only go so low in the quotation, before it becomes not worth your time/effort and will only lead to substandard work, which any actual professional will avoid in the first place as it compromises their guarantee before it's even been implemented.

Past work is a useful guide but not necessarily a guarantee into quality.
Again, if it is not up to standard, those who put it right are professionals, those who cut and run are cowboys.
 
No real education? Wow I wish I was allowed to swear on here! I'm glad I'm not your spark if you choose to look down your nose like that. What you have posted has properly boiled my **** to be honest.

Everything is relative. For example, you may think a college education is educated. To the OP, a traditional PhD or Masters degree from a traditional university might be what he considers educated. To some people in the world, just learning to read may be considered educated.

... I didnt spend 4 years back and forth to college, many years on site learning and doing god knows how many exams and courses to have some ill advised person tell me I have limited intelligence with no real education.

An education involving a BSc, MSc & PhD from Cambridge or Oxford, is more in depth than a college education. That doesn't mean the OP is looking down his nose, it just means he understands that pay often correlates to the skill of the trade- heart surgeons are generally paid more than Mc Donalds servers because the skill & time it takes to train outweighs that to become a McDonalds server.

... I guess they let any numpty work on it eh?

I think you're also upset about the way the OP worded his post. Everyone uses different terminology based on the people they tend to socialise with- that doesn't mean he's looking down his nose at you, it's just how he talks. For example, it's well known the terminology "properly boiled.." , "glad I'm not your spark", "look down your nose", "numpty"..etc. are words or phrases that tend not to be heard much among people at universities. That doesn't make it worse or wrong in any way, it's just a social phenomenon. People learn talk in a similar way to those they spend time with.

Sure in reality anyone with half a brain could probably wire a house but could they do all the calcs to ensure its safe?
In short, yes. If they spent a small amount of time learning how.
 
That doesn't mean the OP is looking down his nose, it just means he understands that pay often correlates to the skill of the trade
If he understood and appreciated that, he'd not be complaining so much, or would go do it himself.
I'm about to throw a chisel at someone my own self, because they don't understand that things take time and skill, and throwing more money at them while hassling the craftsperson isn't going to help.

I think you're also upset about the way the OP worded his post. Everyone uses different terminology based on the people they tend to socialise with- that doesn't mean he's looking down his nose at you, it's just how he talks.
But anyone with half an education would know how to tailor their speech in order to better effect a desired outcome, surely?
All this guy has done is come on here and insult tradesmen, presumably because he can't do the job himself?
 
anyone with half an education would know how to tailor their speech in order to better effect a desired outcome, surely?
In short, no. Most people don't even realise their language may be offensive to people of a different background. For example, some people get offended by people calling them "mate", "pal", or "fella". To people whose social circle contains mostly university educated or certain classes it's considered a lack of respect or over-familiarity, whilst to other classes and people who spend time around college educated or a certain demographic, this language is perfectly polite. The idea it might cause offence is so alien to some that they can't even accept it when it happens.

The same happens in reverse- some people of a certain demographic are offended by well-spoken individuals because they consider their use of language to be snobbish & looking down. In fact it's just the way they talk all the time.

All this guy has done is come on here and insult tradesmen, presumably because he can't do the job himself?
That's your opinion though. To him, he hasn't intended to insult anyone, he's just stating the facts. He'd think if tradesmen can't accept that they're not as educated as a brain surgeon or rocket scientist then they should have chosen a different career. Taking offence doesn't always translate to intending offence.

The opposite is also true- a tradesmen with a college education thinking he's as educated as someone with a PhD could be insulting to some.

Likewise, if someone spent 10 years at university and has a potential earning power of £150 per hour, he's unlikely to want to do the job himself because it would be a waste of his time to spend another 2 years learning skills for a job that would earn him £30-£50 an hour.
 
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To people whose social circle contains mostly university educated or certain classes it's considered a lack of respect or over-familiarity
You flippin' WHAT, now???!!!
So all university educated people are upper class nobility with absolutely no understanding of how the lower class peasantry speak? Do they not have servants any more, or something?
I feel I should be insulted by your assertions that we're so isolated by the Class system that we're utterly clueless in the ways of the world.

You assume that such fancy hoity-toity people do not use such terms themselves (which I assure you they do, mate), or that they would nonetheless be completely unaware of certain social practices outside of their own... Perhaps the occasional upper-middle class new-money wannabe would behave in such a pretentious fashion, but certainly most human beings in this land are far more aware of each other than you credit any of them.

whilst to other classes and people who spend time around college educated or a certain demographic, this language is perfectly polite.
Again, you assume the same things about these people also, forgetting that if such non-educated or even differently educated folk were so unaware, the upper nobs would have no groundskeepers left and we'd never have heard of Mi'Lady.

The idea it might cause offence is so alien to some that they can't even accept it when it happens.
Only to arrogant, ignorant idiots who refuse to take responsibility for their own interactions and likely live their lives blaming others for everything they can...

The same happens in reverse- some people of a certain demographic are offended by well-spoken individuals because they consider their use of language to be snobbish & looking down.
And what do you think this certain demographic might be, then?
Because I've heard such speech from people across all kinds of class and with all levels of educations, just as I've heard such people speaking in elocutionary fashions of considerably questionable nature. One in particular was of great mirth given he was a senior grammar school pupil at the time.

In fact it's just the way they talk all the time.
Really, guv?
You mean they ain't puttin' on hairs an' graces jus' so us salt-o'-the-earth workin' class scum remembers our place?

That's your opinion though. To him, he hasn't intended to insult anyone, he's just stating the facts.
If it were a fact that anyone with a brain could learn a tradesmans job, surely more people would... especially given the sorts of money he suggests one can make. Surely also there'd be no need for such heavy certification and regulation in that trade training, or the need for years of study and practice before one reached mastery level, if anyone with half a brain could factually manage the role?
It might be his opinion, and one with which many here have disagreed, but it's not fact.

He'd think if tradesmen can't accept that they're not as educated as a brain surgeon or rocket scientist then they should have chosen a different career.
His error and offense is in refusing to recognise, understand or appreciate the extent of education necessary to be such a tradesman. It may not be utterly academically complex or complicated like whatever he does, but that does not mean it is any less demanding, challenging, or even exclusive.
To dismiss the considerable effort required to achieve such skill is as foolish as thinking the mere acquisition of knowledge is what makes one actually educated.

Also, being somewhat acquainted with a few actual rocket scientists myself, one does sometimes wonder how such 'highly educated' people are unable to grasp the basic real world effects of the very science theory their lives hinge around...

Taking offence doesn't always translate to intending offence.
But it is still offence and taking responsibility for that offence is a mark of wisdom.

The opposite is also true- a tradesmen with a college education thinking he's as educated as someone with a PhD could be insulting to some.
Again, only to idiots.
Such educations may be different in nature, but that does not mean one 'outranks' another in terms of being educated.
It takes about six years to become a solicitor.
It's at least seven years before you can call yourself a doctor and be GMC registered.
It takes at least nine years before you can be a Master carpenter.
It takes about ten years to become a Catholic priest.

But even then, much of that is just knowledge. It doesn't necessarily mean you have intelligence or even the wisdom to make use of it.

Likewise, if someone spent 10 years at university and has a potential earning power of £150 per hour, he's unlikely to want to do the job himself because it would be a waste of his time to spend another 2 years learning skills for a job that would earn him £30-£50 an hour.
Spoken like a true new money Middle Classer...
Typically I find such educated people quite enjoy getting stuck in and readily relish doing things for themselves, or at the very least learning as much about the theory/academic side of it that they could write textbooks on the subjects. They're often a joy to work for, as they have a deep appreciation for what it actually takes to achieve such work... it's the new money idiots that behave as if the world owes them something just because they have a degree, who think throwing money around and speaking a certain way will get the job done faster, better, and/or to a higher standard.
 
I don't have time to respond to each of your points, so please don't take offence at this short reply, but I didn't intend any insult. My observations are just that, observations. The UK is possibly the most classist society in the world. The fact you & tradesmen on here are so offended also shows this. Most other countries, including my own, did away with our class systems a hundred years ago. The difference is that if I was to re-create these same posts in a forum in my own country, no one would be offended. No one could care less what class people are or what level of education; electricians are proud to be who they are. They're aware they're not as educated as some.

Likewise, highly educated people don't consider themselves superior. Just different. The UK is very unique in the way it has retained a class system yet in the 21st century is in so much denial of it. I hear english people from different classes being offended by each other on an almost weekly basis in public, especially in some parts of the north UK. I've witnessed members of the public walk up to strangers and shout at them "posh ******", "go back to where you came from you posh *******", and more recently in the south a stranger walked up to 2 people & said "you're so middle-class" in a derogatory manner. Someone overheard this exchange & defended the people in question. He said "Leave them alone, what makes you even say that?". The accuser replied "you can just tell the way they look, their faces, how they dress. It's like they think they're better than everyone.". The so-called middle class people in question were just sitting on a bench. I spoke with them afterwards. They were quite upset by the altercation, weren't judging anyone & genuinely had no idea what they had done. I've studied this phenomenon & this side of sociology is interesting in the UK. Parts of the far east of the world don't have any concept of this idea of posh.

It's well known that most people gravitate toward spending time among people similar to them because they can relate to each other. This is human instinct. However, unless you're one of the unusual ones who socialises with all classes, it can often breed misunderstanding when communicating with those different to what they're used to.
 
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I haven't read many of the posts here but the one thing that struck me with going through the process of doing a house up was how absolutely atrocious the customer service/general business management of tradesmen were. If they even used email that was a saving grace, but I rarely expected a reply back for a week. Most seemed to be living in a pre-internet age of texting quotes, paper diaries, etc, and as such - along with a general lack of care I guess - would regularly turn up late or not at all, especially to quote.

The last tradesmen we had in was 2 hours late and his excuse, as honest as day, was literally "well we won the football last night so I'm a bit hungover". Not sure what other job you'd think you could get away with that. Trouble is you can hardly "fire" a tradesmen either because it takes months to find another because of all the above.

If I were 16 again or I had a son or daughter who was nearing that age I would ABSOLUTELY consider/recommend learning a trade; with the right attitude towards business, customer service and all the other attributes that come with a brand etc I don't doubt you'd have a lot of success, even if your workmanship wasn't the best, and in no time you'd be employing people and just overseeing everything.
 

Totally agree, if I had my time again I'd defiantly be on the trade side instead of IT, the amount of 2 bit back of a fag packet people you get round is amazing, as you say a bit of professionalism and a bit of customer service and you'd be riding the crest of a huge wave.
 
@angelknight & @ttaskmaster chaps, if you wish to continue this discussion please either start a new thread in GD or start a personal conversation by clicking the drop down under your names. This is going completely off topic now.

Thank you.

I think me & ttaskmaster have concluded our discussion :)

Back on topic..

I haven't read many of the posts here but the one thing that struck me with going through the process of doing a house up was how absolutely atrocious the customer service/general business management of tradesmen were. If they even used email that was a saving grace, but I rarely expected a reply back for a week. Most seemed to be living in a pre-internet age of texting quotes, paper diaries, etc, and as such - along with a general lack of care I guess - would regularly turn up late or not at all, especially to quote.

The last tradesmen we had in was 2 hours late and his excuse, as honest as day, was literally "well we won the football last night so I'm a bit hungover". Not sure what other job you'd think you could get away with that. Trouble is you can hardly "fire" a tradesmen either because it takes months to find another because of all the above.

If I were 16 again or I had a son or daughter who was nearing that age I would ABSOLUTELY consider/recommend learning a trade; with the right attitude towards business, customer service and all the other attributes that come with a brand etc I don't doubt you'd have a lot of success, even if your workmanship wasn't the best, and in no time you'd be employing people and just overseeing everything.

You're not alone, many people share your experiences of tradesmen, myself included. Finding a decent one is like a needle in a haystack.

Out of the 15 or so I've hired in my life they charge extortionate prices (e.g. £200 - £300 per hour+ for unskilled labour), their time-keeping non existant, many are dishonest, take short-cuts on the work & we even caught a few stealing on our cctv, but perhaps more importantly, the quality of their end result is almost always atrocious. Although I earn more than this I've often had to resort to learning builder's or carpentry & various types of work myself simply because I always end up having to fix any tradesmens' work anyway.

Had I known what I know now, 20 years ago I'd seriously have considered going into the business myself as a tradesmen. Simply having good timekeeping & a decent manner about you would undoubtedly be successful given the lack of decent tradesmen in the UK at present.

Only thing I can suggest is that you ask around & keep on asking for recommendations, especially when you meet someone who has had a lot of work done. I've personally found the only decent person I could rely on was Polish. The quality of his work was outstanding, he could barely speak English but his manner was very mild & pleasant, and time-keeping perfect. He'd stay until 9pm to get the job done if necessary (try finding a UK tradesman with that work ethic). He's now gone back to Poland however !
 
My brother didn’t join his company as an apprentice, just as an assistant heating engineer while he finished his portfolio. He joined on the agreement that as he wasn’t an apprentice, he would have to pay his gas safe assessment fees himself as the company couldn’t get funding for him.

In the end, the company got so desperate for more fully qualified gas engineers that his boss paid for his assessments out of the company funds. The minute he passed, he was given a brand new company van and a salary bump from £17500 to £42000. And that’s considered starting wages now for a new qualified engineer in London.

Shows just how short of tradesmen we are.
 
I've seen both sides of this as I largely grew up with friends who went on to work in the trades (and indeed some are my closest friends) but then moved to another country where i've had to basically look for reliable tradesmen from scratch (yet still getting good advice from aforementioned friends), and also being in a job where I frequently am responsible for contracting in tradesmen for various works. Hence I have a great respect for those in the trades and understand both sides.

From speaking to friends, on the tradesmen side their frustrations are:
  • Timewasters - people who want work quoted for but for various reasons, will never get the work done
  • Those who want something for nothing - penny pinchers who want to drive cost through the floor but aren't happy with a 'budget solution'
  • Interference - customers who insist on interfering in ongoing works
  • Moving the goalposts - customers who change the requirements often in the middle of the original scoped works and then complain that the outcome is not as expected.
  • Customers who once a tradesmen do the most minor piece of work on a system, hold them accountable for anything that goes wrong with it in the future
  • Needing work done that simply isn't 'worth it' and then entering in the questionable practice of deliberately pricing themselves out of work.
  • Customers talking to them like they are beneath them
My personal/professional observations of working with tradesmen:
  • In a buoyant market, tradesmen often cherry pick work -I live in the sticks and trying to get anyone to come out to us is a nightmare and ever then they charge through the roof because they know they can. Last job was nearly 200 quid to replace 2 ridge tiles for instance.
  • They rarely call back and communication in general is awful. I understand the challenges of being on the move and this is perhaps an area where technology needs to break through. Similar to a previous post, a friend had a plasterer (which is a trade in demand in the area) agree twice to times and then never turned up each time. As a previous poster said, this isn't acceptable in any walk/industry and is downright rude. I'm sure this wouldn't be acceptable if the shoe was on the other foot.
  • Cost - yes there are lots of operating costs that most aren't aware of, and deliberately pricing themselves out of work seems to be the norm (see Cherry Picking above), but assuming people are too stupid to research through a multitude of means the material cost, the labour costs and still see a truly ridiculous margin, doesn't win any favours.
  • Not providing or working to a scope of works. Quote for work, provide something different. Everyone suffers.
  • Won't maintain a solution they didn't put in. I have literally been looking for a year for someone to investigate a sensor fault with my solar panels. I'm pretty sure replacing the sensor near the tubes will resolve the issue, and it is getting to the point where i'm just going to buy a roof ladder myself and get up there. I understand this from a associated future blame perspective, but no-one is interested in the work.
  • No-one holds them to account if they are self employed - the consequences of poor service in a buoyant market is minimal. However, the advent of social media is changing this. Many times i've seen on local community groups, someone asks for recommendations for a tradesman and then one is recommended and then rightly or wrongly, previous customers come out of the wood work. Online reviews too.
All the above just creates resentment between tradesmen and the customer and further exacerbates the problem, for what is essentially a necessary symbiotic relationship.

I've resorted to doing most jobs by myself. I fix my own cars (all but jobs which are horrible or need specialist tools), i'm currently doing all the groundwork to install electric gates, i've just installed smart heating myself. Yes, I will screw up occasionally, but I will learn each time. I'm simply beyond chasing people who won't engage and won't even offer common courtesy.
 
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I think me & ttaskmaster have concluded our discussion :)
I hadn't, though will chuck it aside if it's too far off topic. In summary, though - Classism continues, a bit like racism, but is no longer anywhere near the divide you seem to think.
I was actually getting quite into the subject, though, so feel free to start a new thread if you're interested, or maybe take it to PM?

He'd stay until 9pm to get the job done if necessary (try finding a UK tradesman with that work ethic).
How about a mechanic who stays on the job until 1am?
Got one of those right here... and he's from Birmingham.

The last tradesmen we had in was 2 hours late and his excuse, as honest as day, was literally "well we won the football last night so I'm a bit hungover".
Is that not the big selling point of 'being your own boss', though?
The ability to not give a **** if you so choose?
If you're unable to get someone else in, then there's not much you can do, I'm afraid.

If I were 16 again or I had a son or daughter who was nearing that age I would ABSOLUTELY consider/recommend learning a trade; with the right attitude towards business, customer service and all the other attributes that come with a brand etc
We have contractors who also do work directly for the public. Lovely customer service, wonderful brand image and marketing, etc etc... Their workmanship is for spit, though.
I also had a property maintenance company my own self, once. Our specific goal was to provide that very professional service you speak of. We lost all our work to the Summer cowboys, because people just wanted the work done for the lowest price. Of course, the cowboys did half-assed jobs, left the places a mess, ignored appointments, skimped on everything and much of what they did ended up looking worse than before they started... well, the stuff that didn't fall apart mere hours after they left site, that is.
Unfortunately, by the time the customers came knocking back at our door, we'd gone out of business.

I don't doubt you'd have a lot of success, even if your workmanship wasn't the best, and in no time you'd be employing people and just overseeing everything.
What people really care most about is results, though and they'll put up with a lot of faffing and messing around in order to get the best. My best friend is a mechanic and he's the most scatterbrained individual I've ever met. He can utterly lose things within 30 seconds of being given them, and being "there in a minute" could mean the next 30 seconds or it could mean next week. The only person more absent-minded and with worse timekeeping tends to hop about the universe in a TARDIS!!
And yet his customer base is forever expanding, because he does THE best work in town. A few customers have even paid to fly him out to their country just to fix up their cars.

Shows just how short of tradesmen we are.
And how the cowboys are able to muscle in on the market, sometimes to the detriment of genuine workers.
 
I haven't read many of the posts here but the one thing that struck me with going through the process of doing a house up was how absolutely atrocious the customer service/general business management of tradesmen were. If they even used email that was a saving grace, but I rarely expected a reply back for a week. Most seemed to be living in a pre-internet age of texting quotes, paper diaries, etc, and as such - along with a general lack of care I guess - would regularly turn up late or not at all, especially to quote.

I believe a lot of that comes down to the fact that a lot of trades people aren't business minded, they can run a business, sure. But probably not a thriving one that does consider things like reputation and customer service.

Different trade area i guess, but speaking with my brother (who's a vehicle technician) a few years ago about whether he'd go into business for himself, and as much as he said he'd love to be able to work for himself yada yada, he really cannot be bothered with the hassle of learning how to set up and run a successful business, when what he knows is how to fix cars. If he had a business partner on the other hand who could do all that stuff, then great, it's something that could likely succeed. But without that person, he'll just jump on the bandwagon and be like half the other tradespeople you've described who don't answer phones or get back to you etc.
 
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