Why are you not vegan....

[Raymond Lin]

As is the deflection trying argue something you know is right but don't wish to admit it's right because it makes you a hypocrite

There is no deflection, I wasn't the one compare eating cows and chicken to killing your neighbour. You are, you brought it up. You conjured up an imaginary extreme scenario that is never going to happen as an example that I am some morally corrupted person. That's what you are doing. That's how hard you are clutching at the straws.

What make you the moral police anyway? Are you a saint? What give you the right to question my morals? I never admit I am right or admit I am anything but an average person doing average things. Who says eating meat is immoral anyway? You and the rest of the vegans? Do you stop birds from eating worms? It's nature. What is perhaps immoral is farming animals, never having a chance of freedom and being bred to be killed. But you are not even talking about that, there is no middle ground in this thread here, we are talking the act of eating meat being immoral, says who? Unless you are a vegan and armish, you are a huge hypocrite.

btw, our morals are defined by our society and culture, what is right now would not be in another time period. I am not the one here questioning people on their life choices and putting guilt trips on them.

You are.

p.s. I am here sitting in the dark with no lights on (i don't usually, the TV has enough light) drinking black tea and I am the bad person having ate some Heinz tinned chicken noodle soup with 2% chicken at lunchtime.

 

[Minusorange]

putting guilt trips on them.

Because most people are incapable of thinking for themselves they need to people to tell them they're doing it wrong, there's been enough information put out there that our behaviour is simply not sustainable for life on this planet and people don't listen so all that's left is to guilt trip them and question their morals when it appears they don't wish to change because they're selfish or just simply too stupid

 

[Richie]

I actually grew up near a dairy farm when I was 8-18, something never did sit right with me seeing the cows hind legs tied together with rope and their massive unnatural looking udders.... wasnt aware of the other stuff though.

I appreciate you grew up near one but, unless it's explained or you have worked on one, it's not the same

The legs are tied for a reason - to assist the cow. Sometimes after birthing, the hind legs are stressed/worn out to the point that, when the cow tries to stand, the legs splay out (think of the hind legs doing the splits)

The legs are tied with a length of rope looped at each end with around 1-2 feet between the loops so that it prevents the legs from splaying out and allows the cow to stand.

Even humans sometimes have trouble with their legs after childbirth but we have wheelchairs etc and a developed brain/medical staff to cope with and understand it whereas an animal will repeatedly try and stand causing itself further injury.

The point is - people see things and come to a conclusion that it's cruelty rather than finding out the reason why and forming a decision from there.


Regarding the bad practices in a slaughterhouse - they should be exposed and the person either prosecuted if intentional or retrained if it's clear its due to lack of knowledge of processes.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Because most people are incapable of thinking for themselves they need to people to tell them they're doing it wrong, there's been enough information put out there that our behaviour is simply not sustainable for life on this planet and people don't listen so all that's left is to guilt trip them and question their morals when it appears they don't wish to change because they're selfish or just simply too stupid

And as I said, it stinks of obnoxious, hypocrisy and narcissistic.

Could you not drop the moral angle?

 

[Minusorange]

And as I said, it stinks of obnoxious, hypocrisy and narcissistic.

Could you not drop the moral angle?

What angle would you accept ? Any angle you take to guilt people into changing behaviour will be obnoxious when they refuse to change based on facts alone, you're either left with forcing them or guilting them

 

[Raymond Lin]

What angle would you accept ? Any angle you take to guilt people into changing behaviour will be obnoxious when they refuse to change based on facts alone, you're either left with forcing them or guilting them

Why are you trying to guilt people? To do that you need to be a saint.

Are you?

Do I need to make the argument for you?

It's one thing to explain to them the impact of certain industries on our environment, quite another accusing people they are abusing animals by simply eating their dinner. It's how you do it and you are doing it in a way that is making everyone hate you.

I watched that Seasipracy Netflix doc on fishing and I have chosen to reduce my fish intake. That documentary doesn't start by telling it's the audience they are killing our children for eating a fish finger. And it would never work to guilt people, even 1 person to stop something they like doing completely, it is much easier and more impactful than to convince 10 people to reduce it by half.

 

[Minusorange]

Why are you trying to guilt people? To do that you need to be a saint.

Are you?

Why do you need to be a saint to tell people what they're doing is factually wrong ??

 

[adolf hamster]

Because most people are incapable of thinking for themselves they need to people to tell them they're doing it wrong, there's been enough information put out there that our behaviour is simply not sustainable for life on this planet and people don't listen so all that's left is to guilt trip them and question their morals when it appears they don't wish to change because they're selfish or just simply too stupid

See, when you insult and patronise the people you're trying to persuade, its guaranteed to get their backs up no matter how strong your argument may be.

When people act that way they sound no different to any ct nut when they scream "wake up sheeple", "do your own research" etc.

The fact the militant vegan doesnt see that speaks more to their intellegence, or lack thereof, than that of their audience.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Why do you need to be a saint to tell people what they're doing is factually wrong ??

Hypocrite. If you don't even know what you else are doing wrong, who are you to tell me what I am doing wrong? If you do, why don't you look in the mirror and be a better person yourself before telling others?

And where did you get that high horse?

 

[Raymond Lin]

btw, I see nothing wrong being a vegan, I like the idea, i support the idea.

Vegans trying to convince others however...they are always going about it the wrong way! It's what give them a bad name.

 

[Minusorange]

Hypocrite. If you don't even know what you else are doing wrong, who are you to tell me what I am doing wrong? If you do, why don't you look in the mirror and be a better person yourself before telling others?

And where did you get that high horse?

The science says we're all doing it wrong, nobody is claiming to be perfect, it doesn't mean somebody who has made changes in their behaviour because they accept the science can't tell others maybe their behaviour should change because science says it needs to change

By all means do what you want with your life, just don't get so uptight when somebody questions behaviours that have effects on others and the potential existence of all life on the planet ?

I fully accept my hypocrasy like I'm comfortable killing fish, but wouldn't kill other living creatures, I could probably do more than I'm doing to limit my damage on the environment, does it mean I can't speak up about it ? What a childish attitude to have

 

[Raymond Lin]

The science says we're all doing it wrong, nobody is claiming to be perfect, it doesn't mean somebody who has made changes in their behaviour because they accept the science can't tell others maybe their behaviour should change because science says it needs to change

By all means do what you want with your life, just don't get so uptight when somebody questions behaviours that have effects on others and the potential existence of all life on the planet ?

I fully accept my hypocrasy like I'm comfortable killing fish, but wouldn't kill other living creatures, I could probably do more than I'm doing to limit my damage on the environment, does it mean I can't speak up about it ? What a childish attitude to have

Now, how is fish ranked lower than a cow? You clearly rank them. Why?

Do you know how bad the fishing industry is for the planet? Do you? have you not seen that Netflix documentary? Do you know how much the plastics in our ocean are made up of fishing nets? Do you know how overfished our oceans are and that without an ecosystem in our ocean we might have just signed our death warrant? How do you live with yourself?


Does that convince you not to eat fish?




See what I mean?

 

[Efour]

I suspect he's just playing devils advocate in this discussion or autism....

 

[andybird123]

The science says we're all doing it wrong, nobody is claiming to be perfect, it doesn't mean somebody who has made changes in their behaviour because they accept the science can't tell others maybe their behaviour should change because science says it needs to change

By all means do what you want with your life, just don't get so uptight when somebody questions behaviours that have effects on others and the potential existence of all life on the planet ?

I fully accept my hypocrasy like I'm comfortable killing fish, but wouldn't kill other living creatures, I could probably do more than I'm doing to limit my damage on the environment, does it mean I can't speak up about it ? What a childish attitude to have

Because you can't tell other people they need to change their behaviour when you openly admit you're unwilling to do it yourself.

 

[BUDFORCE]

As an honest vegan ! I can say I miss fish shop fish and also crumbly cheese that's about it ,any suggestions gratefully received for alternatives

Why not just eat it for real?

I mean the scheme of things it sounds like you're already more than doing your part.

 

[dl8860]

it isn't, which is why



is the reply because when the argument starts with "you are a bad person for doing something the overwhelming majority of your species has done for literally the entirety of history" it's obvious you're about to start playing chess with pidgeons.



you can make the same statement about population moderation, but the moment you even whisper it you get drowned out by myriad screams of "so you want genocide eh? you first".

This post just screams "I'm just going to make crap arguments because the people I disagree with do too".

 

[Minusorange]

Now, how is fish ranked lower than a cow? You clearly rank them. Why?

I don't rank them, I grew up learning how to hunt and fish, I have no issues killing fish & cooking it, other animals not so much, would you be prepared to kill everything you eat ?

Do you know how bad the fishing industry is for the planet? Do you? have you not seen that Netflix documentary? Do you know how much the plastics in our ocean are made up of fishing nets? Do you know how overfished our oceans are and that without an ecosystem in our ocean we might have just signed our death warrant? How do you live with yourself?

I know the fishing industry I've seen the documentary you mention, I eat seafood but I don't eat it regularly, my consumption is sustainable, I'm equally well aware of the plastic issue which I've mentioned countless times on this forum that it is potentially a greater danger than climate change especially when it's in our water, I limit as much plastic use as I can, not much more I can do than that, even if I wasn't doing all I could, it doesn't mean I can't speak up about it

So I'm not sure what your point is apart from trying to make out that nobody can speak up about issues and guilt people without being a literal Angel

Because you can't tell other people they need to change their behaviour when you openly admit you're unwilling to do it yourself.

Except I have changed my behaviour, that's kind of the point

 

[Thekwango]

Mack is great and relatively one of the easiest to catch providing you're in the right place at the right time or you've got a boat

Aye. Lovely straight out of the sea, gutted, cleaned and straight on the pan.

 

[Johno please?]

I appreciate you grew up near one but, unless it's explained or you have worked on one, it's not the same

The legs are tied for a reason - to assist the cow. Sometimes after birthing, the hind legs are stressed/worn out to the point that, when the cow tries to stand, the legs splay out (think of the hind legs doing the splits)

The legs are tied with a length of rope looped at each end with around 1-2 feet between the loops so that it prevents the legs from splaying out and allows the cow to stand.

Even humans sometimes have trouble with their legs after childbirth but we have wheelchairs etc and a developed brain/medical staff to cope with and understand it whereas an animal will repeatedly try and stand causing itself further injury.

The point is - people see things and come to a conclusion that it's cruelty rather than finding out the reason why and forming a decision from there.


Regarding the bad practices in a slaughterhouse - they should be exposed and the person either prosecuted if intentional or retrained if it's clear its due to lack of knowledge of processes.

Yea I think I remember asking the farmer years ago what the rope was for.

Oh it certainly wasn't "lack of knowledge" it appeared to be intentional sadism, link to the video if you wish to watch it.

*VIDEO removed*

btw, our morals are defined by our society and culture, what is right now would not be in another time period. I am not the one here questioning people on their life choices and putting guilt trips on them.


p.s. I am here sitting in the dark with no lights on (i don't usually, the TV has enough light) drinking black tea and I am the bad person having ate some Heinz tinned chicken noodle soup with 2% chicken at lunchtime.

I don't think people who eat meat are bad people, were all brought up to eat meat after all and all my friends eat meat but il also guarantee most if not all wont be aware of some of the terrible things that happen, but you definitely contribute towards cruelty if you buy meat or dairy.

https://www.rspca.org.uk/webContent/staticImages/BroilerCampaign/EatSitSufferRepeat.pdf

 

[McBain]

What a Piz!