Why are you not vegan....

Pottsey · 2 Jun 2022 at 10:41

Johno please? said:
The myth? lol So you disagree with the science then? Its a well known fact that animal agriculture is one of the leading causes of greenhouse gases.

Its also a well known fact that vegetarian agriculture like rice is one of the leading causes of greenhouse gases and the methane is more than 30 times as potent as carbon dioxide. If you scale up the size of the Vegetarian agriculture to replace the animal agriculture then the total amount of greenhouse gas can get worse and the type of greenhouse gas produced is worse.

Instead of looking at the total size of the animal agriculture against the size of the vegetarian agriculture. Look up say how much greenhouse gases is produced to feed say 10million people via animal agriculture v 10million via vegetarian agriculture. Once you scale up the vegetarian agriculture to feed mass amount of people you get runaway major greenhouse gas problems far worse then the current animal agriculture industry.

Rice farming up to twice as bad for climate change as previously thought, study reveals

Levels of overlooked greenhouse gas are up to 45 times higher in fields that are only flooded intermittently

www.independent.co.uk

Chris Wilson · 2 Jun 2022 at 10:47

Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

Biggest analysis to date reveals huge footprint of livestock - it provides just 18% of calories but takes up 83% of farmland

www.theguardian.com

Only 18 percent of calories? That's pitiful. We should close down all livestock agriculture and turn the land over to factories producing cakes and confectionery. That'll sort our desperate need for calories out!

Pottsey · 2 Jun 2022 at 10:48

Minusorange said:
Except I haven't unless you're being obtuse in trying to suggest that giving up meat is a greater harm to the planet, I also haven't told anybody they should do anything, just if they're happy with their actions on their conscience knowing the facts Whether you like the truth or not it's still true that our current path is simply not sustainable

There you go again. I use facts and you call me obtuse and ignore the facts proving what we said about you is correct. Our current path is not sustainable but the path you seem to have chosen and are pushing is even more unstainable and even worse for the environment. Then you act like your morally better then everyone else when you lead a life style that is a leading cause of greenhouse gas. Given up meat is a greater harm to the planet as per the articles shown. Scaling up vegetarian food production to replace meat production for 10's of millions of people will produce overall more greenhouse gas and a worse form of gas then what the meat industry produce. The Nitrous Oxide and Methane produced via vegetarian food production is up to 30x more harmful then the carbon dioxide produced by meat production.

EDIT: Plus when you scale up the vegetarian food production to replace meat production then you are also scaling up the carbon dioxide the vegetarian food production is causing.

andybird123 · 2 Jun 2022 at 10:59

Pottsey said:
There you go again. I use facts and you call me obtuse and ignore the facts proving what we said about you is correct. Our current path is not sustainable but the path you seem to have chosen and are pushing is even more unstainable and even worse for the environment. Then you act like your morally better then everyone else when you lead a life style that is a leading cause of greenhouse gas. Given up meat is a greater harm to the planet as per the articles shown. Scaling up vegetarian food production to replace meat production for 10's of millions of people will produce overall more greenhouse gas and a worse form of gas then what the meat industry produce. The Nitrous Oxide and Methane produced via vegetarian food production is up to 30x more harmful then the carbon dioxide produced by meat production.

Facts are allowed to be ignored if they don't fit your preconceptions and biased narrative obviously.
99% of what humans do is damaging to the environment, all food production is damaging. Minusorange has already given up meat so obviously it should be easy for him to just give up all food entirely, or even better just step in to the incinerator now and save the planet from his entire life's worth of CO2 output. There problem solved, mass culling is the only viable solution.

this_is_gav · 2 Jun 2022 at 11:29

I think there is a still long way to go in terms of improving animal welfare everywhere, but remember in these videos and articles the likes of PETA keep throwing out the evidence is always at the most extreme end of the scale and are rarely a fair reflection on the vast majority.

In Britain too our livestock contribute far, far less in terms of greenhouse gasses than most other countries.

We could always go further, but we can't go on being plant-based forever either as soil health, loss and erosion is a far more pressing matter across the world, including in Britain.

Rimsy · 2 Jun 2022 at 11:38

None of this matters a crap until we face up to the fact that humans "right" to reproduce freely needs to end.

200sols · 2 Jun 2022 at 11:40

Rimsy said:
None of this matters a crap until we face up to the fact that humans "right" to reproduce freely needs to end.

What?

Rimsy · 2 Jun 2022 at 11:43

200sols said:
What?

The environmental benefits of picking one diet over another are fairly irrelevant until population growth is addressed.

200sols · 2 Jun 2022 at 11:49

Rimsy said:
The environmental benefits of picking one diet over another are fairly irrelevant until population growth is addressed.

Population growth is already slowing and will peak and start falling. Lifting people out of poverty solves the population issue.

this_is_gav · 2 Jun 2022 at 11:49

Things that could only be said in OcUK general discussion. "I wish we were more like China used to be".

Minusorange · 2 Jun 2022 at 12:29

Pottsey said:
There you go again. I use facts and you call me obtuse and ignore the facts proving what we said about you is correct. Our current path is not sustainable but the path you seem to have chosen and are pushing is even more unstainable and even worse for the environment. Then you act like your morally better then everyone else when you lead a life style that is a leading cause of greenhouse gas. Given up meat is a greater harm to the planet as per the articles shown. Scaling up vegetarian food production to replace meat production for 10's of millions of people will produce overall more greenhouse gas and a worse form of gas then what the meat industry produce. The Nitrous Oxide and Methane produced via vegetarian food production is up to 30x more harmful then the carbon dioxide produced by meat production.

EDIT: Plus when you scale up the vegetarian food production to replace meat production then you are also scaling up the carbon dioxide the vegetarian food production is causing.

There's more vegetables than just rice, the issue you highlight regards to Nitrous Oxide is due to our use of fertilizers and how microbes in soil will process excess nitrates and convert into NO2, there are ways to combat this if you look beyond articles that suit your bias and look beyond a single point at the bigger picture

It's also convenient you ignore the fact that the meat industry also produces NO2

New research: nitrous oxide emissions 300 times more powerful than CO₂ are jeopardising Earth’s future

Agriculture is the dominant cause for the increasing N₂O concentrations. Emissions must be reduced if we hope to stabilise Earth’s climate.

theconversation.com

Each year, more than 100 million tonnes of nitrogen are spread on crops in the form of synthetic fertiliser. The same amount again is put onto pastures and crops in manure from livestock.

So you're really just confirming what we've been saying, that the meat industry is more damaging than the plant industry

CaptainRAVE · 2 Jun 2022 at 12:32

Vegan activists breaking into the Mall. They really try hard to turn people away. Hopefully they receive the help they need

This discussion reminds me of the South Park episode where cartman eventually realises the vegan food is just as processed as the meat he was eating

Bear · 2 Jun 2022 at 12:54

200sols said:
Population growth is already slowing and will peak and start falling. Lifting people out of poverty solves the population issue.

I agree but its a double edged sword though. The wealthier people become the population declines but the wealthier people become, they eat more meat and generally consume more. Not that Im saying keep people in poverty.

adolf hamster · 2 Jun 2022 at 13:10

dl8860 said:
This post just screams "I'm just going to make crap arguments because the people I disagree with do too".

good, was getting worried there it might have been a tad ambiguous......

adolf hamster said:
you can make the same statement about population moderation, but the moment you even whisper it you get drowned out by myriad screams of "so you want genocide eh? you first".

Rimsy said:
None of this matters a crap until we face up to the fact that humans "right" to reproduce freely needs to end.

this_is_gav said:
Things that could only be said in OcUK general discussion. "I wish we were more like China used to be".

called it.....

Efour · 2 Jun 2022 at 13:14

If it comes to the crunch and global warming is actually caused by humans

(controversial!!!!!!!!!!111!!1!1)
Then as a part a global government initiative to control the environment and human population National socialist veganism is probably the option to lower human effects.

As regards veganism because "animals have feelings too!" Niche market.

When god created us he gave us domain over all of earths creatures, he gave us KFC and taught us to cure and smoke pork ( pig muscle and fat) then cutteth it thinly thus creating bacon. Amen.

Dyson · 2 Jun 2022 at 13:34

Efour said:
When god created us he gave us domain over all of earths creatures, he gave us KFC and taught us to cure and smoke pork ( pig muscle and fat) then cutteth it thinly thus creating bacon. Amen.

Amen.

Chris Wilson · 2 Jun 2022 at 13:45

People of the liberal left's persuasion are constantly trying to erode my freedom of opinion being voiced, unless of course it's THEIR opinion, too, the British Empire is apologised for by the them, women have been given the vote. We needlessly got rid of Gaddafi despite him saying the result would be West Africa emptying into Europe, and as flotillas of small boats invade Dover and the surrounding coast, (with our charity's unwarranted assistance), he is proven right.

I'm damned if I am giving up my place at the top of the food chain as well...

I shall raise a forkful of rarely done steak to the Queen tonight!

SexyGreyFox · 2 Jun 2022 at 13:52

Efour said:
When god created us he gave us domain over all of earths creatures, he gave us KFC and taught us to cure and smoke pork ( pig muscle and fat) then cutteth it thinly thus creating bacon. Amen.

God gave strict instructions for not eating pigs.

GreatAuk · 2 Jun 2022 at 13:56

SexyGreyFox said:
God gave strict instructions for not eating pigs.

Jesus fulfilled the old testament law and died so that we can eat bacon though.

The delicious taste of salvation.

Rimsy · 2 Jun 2022 at 14:07

200sols said:
Population growth is already slowing and will peak and start falling. Lifting people out of poverty solves the population issue.

In the “western” world yes(though arguably not quickly enough) but not in the areas which are the source of the much of the environmental issues. Solving the poverty in those areas… hmm!