Why are you not vegan....

[200sols]

In the “western” world yes(though arguably not quickly enough) but not in the areas which are the source of the much of the environmental issues. Solving the poverty in those areas… hmm!

It's already happening. Also per capita westerners are many times over more polluting than the people you want to blame.

 

[Pottsey]

So you're really just confirming what we've been saying, that the meat industry is more damaging than the plant industry

Your reading it wrong. What that is saying is the meat industry is less damaging. What that means is the crops are already doing as much harm as the meat industry in the area we are talking about and to remove the meat industry and replace that food with further crops would be a larger increase in damage then the current meat industry.

"if you look beyond articles that suit your bias and look beyond a single point at the bigger picture"
Perhaps you could take your own advice and look beyond articles that suit your bias narrative and look beyond a single point at the bigger picture. So far you come across as the most bias person in this thread. You come across as being more interested in trying to apear morally superior rather then actually caring about the environment. The problem is not eating meat or being vegetarian the problem is how the food is produced. Being vegetarian is not automatically better for the planet as many of the ways that vegetarian food industry is produced is more harmful to the planet then the meat industry which is itself harmful.

"It's also convenient you ignore the fact that the meat industry also produces NO2"
Accept I didn't ignore that I factored that in. You have been doing that throughout this tread making false and/or incorrect assumptions based on your clear bias narrative. Stop deflecting and look at how the methane produced from your chosen life style is 30x more harmful then the c02 from the meat industry.

Yes there are more vegetables than just rice but rice is a big part of the vegetarian industry and is a major factor in global greenhouse gas production and a major factor in global warming. There are other vegetable but each have there own sets of problems when you have to scale them up to feed 10's of millions as a replacement for the meat industry. Your so busy attacking the meat industry your blinded to the major harm your chosen industry is doing. Which wouldn't be so bad but your trying to use moral high ground which you do not have.

 

[arknor]

I'm vegan apart from pepperoni it tastes too good on pizzas.
I started eating a lot of Tofu the extra firms ones are actually really good and pretty high in protein.
the more firm the tofu the higher the protein content it has

 

[Efour]

God gave strict instructions for not eating pigs.

Not my god.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I'm vegan apart from pepperoni it tastes too good on pizzas.
I started eating a lot of Tofu the extra firms ones are actually really good, the lesser ones not so much though

Different versions for different dishes. The soft ones are just as good when done right. It's awesome stuff. I love the tofu pudding that they make too.

 

[m4rmite]

God gave strict instructions for not eating pigs.

His sodomy/buggery rule doesn't work either.

 

[200sols]

God gave strict instructions for not eating pigs.

God doesn't exist.

 

[andybird123]

Jesus fulfilled the old testament law and died so that we can eat bacon though.

The delicious taste of salvation.

Anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering, suffering... tastes like bacon... mmmm bacon

 

[fez]

I'm vegan apart from pepperoni it tastes too good on pizzas.
I started eating a lot of Tofu the extra firms ones are actually really good and pretty high in protein.
the more firm the tofu the higher the protein content it has

Yeah I have found that the extra firm ones are really nice and its far less of a faff to just get them pre-compacted rather than try and spend ages squeezing the water out of the less firm stuff.

Been a big fan of my miso soup with tofu lately.

 

[Minusorange]

but rice is a big part of the vegetarian industry

Apart from the odd home made fried rice dish, nothing I eat has rice in it

look at how the methane produced from your chosen life style is 30x more harmful then the c02 from the meat industry.

Based on what ? Care to show some actual science and figures to support your absurd claim

 

[Throrik]

They really try hard to turn people away. Hopefully they receive the help they need

A good thick Ribeye Steak would give them the help they needed to not be so idiotic.

Apart from the odd home made fried rice dish, nothing I eat has rice in it

Rice flour and the likes are pretty big alternatives for people living different lifestyles too, not necessarily Vegan/Veggie but definitely used, plus a huge amount of the world eats rice at least once a day, so maybe you don't use/eat rice often but you cannot deny that it's impact is huge. The problems that need to be tackled are all industrial/global scale rather than individual and small amounts of people making changes.

 

[arknor]

Different versions for different dishes. The soft ones are just as good when done right. It's awesome stuff. I love the tofu pudding that they make too.

yea I read you can use silken in place of eggs apparently :S

I just want the protein though and was suprised how good extra firm tofu with some herbs fried in a pan tastes, I just add it to rice and vegetables

 

[Vidar]

Is it just me or are vegans just the anti vaxers of the dietary World? There is zero evidence to say that veganism is sustainable long term for the body. Any diet that requires supplementation is not species appropriate or sustainable. That said there is zero evidence of any diet being sustainable long term because they can't lock clones up in labs for their entire lives for various obvious reasons.

I happen to know several ex vegans quite well who've between 6 and 14 years on that lifestyle under their belts. They've switched from vegan, due to various health issues like losing their menstrual cycle and organ failure. They're now on Carnivore and doing much better health wise with most if not all seeing their health conditions go into remission. Health generally across the board is a lot better.

I know since going strict Carnivore 6 months ago, my health has improved dramatically. Baring in mind due to my disability and limited mobility this has been achieved with zero increase to my activity levels. So in 6 months I've put my type 2 diabetes into remission and am completely medication free from that. I've lost approximately 5st as of the middle of May. My perpetual diarrhoea and blood filled stools have entirely vanished to the point of being discharged from gastroenterology without a formal diagnosis. They couldn't find or see anything wrong after me suffering with it for over 10 years. And, I've finally started to get some feeling back in my leg after 4 years of zero sensation at the surface since massive surgery caused a lot of nerve damage. It hurts!

Could you argue that I'd have seen some benefits switching from the standard Western diet to veganism? Possibly but then that's most likely due to the reduction of highly processed junk. But when Botanists talk about every plant being toxic to varying levels. I'd rather not put that in my body.

 

[Raymond Lin]

yea I read you can use silken in place of eggs apparently :S

I just want the protein though and was suprised how good extra firm tofu with some herbs fried in a pan tastes, I just add it to rice and vegetables

Well, i don't really use it to replace something else as a substitute. That's the "problem'? with western cooking, they try to use it in dishes where it replaces where it previously was a meat ingredient. That's often not the best way to use it. Cook it to the strength of the ingredient as opposed to trying to fit certain ingredients into certain former meat dishes. Stop trying to imitate meat IMO.

Nikko, a little town in central Japan, where the local famous dish is tofu, they use every style of it to make different dishes. The skin when they make soy is used as tofu skin, then there is different kinds of tofu used in different ways.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

God doesn't exist.

You had to read what I was replying to

 

[Johno please?]

Still sticking with the hillier than thou attitude I see.

You are NOT getting it, it's not about REPLACING something with another. People don't replace it because of their economic status, they CAN NOT replace it. The fact that you just say "replace it with that", shows your arrogance and ignorance.

It's not about what they eat, it's about what they can get.

Ive already said, I don't expect everyone in the entire world to go vegan, I see no reason why working class people in hong kong cant be vegan though, they have access to some basic vegetables surely?

Also, Veganism is a new word but the concept isn't even a western idea, other cultures (ancient Indian and west asian) cut out meat probably long before we did.

A quick google suggests there's a growing trend of cutting out meat in hong kong as well which is good to hear.

...Like I said I am against the big factories that don't treat animals in the right way as Animal welfare matters. But that doesnt make all meat eating wrong.


My hypothetical to you. If I have a pet pig that I looked after and treated the best I could then after years it dies of natural reasons. Due to emotional ties I wouldn't eat it myself but what would be wrong giving it to my local farmer to use for meat for his family who are on hard times and struggling to afford to eat. The animal didn't suffer, the body is not being wasted. Its a positive outcome from what is a negative event of a pet being dead. Why would this be wrong? What matters to me is where the meat comes from instead of saying all meat eating is bad. One does not have to follow veganism to reduce harm to animals. In this case one could still eat meat and still be following veganism from the point of view of trying to stop and reduce harm to animals. As the eating meat in this case is not causing any harm.

Cool, so you're against the majority of animal agriculture then Because most farmed animals are certainly not treated well.

If your pig lives to old age, dies out in a field, naturally? I would have no qualms about someone eating it.... would I eat it personally? probably not, just because I don't need or would want to.

Its also a well known fact that vegetarian agriculture like rice is one of the leading causes of greenhouse gases and the methane is more than 30 times as potent as carbon dioxide. If you scale up the size of the Vegetarian agriculture to replace the animal agriculture then the total amount of greenhouse gas can get worse and the type of greenhouse gas produced is worse.

Instead of looking at the total size of the animal agriculture against the size of the vegetarian agriculture. Look up say how much greenhouse gases is produced to feed say 10million people via animal agriculture v 10million via vegetarian agriculture. Once you scale up the vegetarian agriculture to feed mass amount of people you get runaway major greenhouse gas problems far worse then the current animal agriculture industry.

Rice farming up to twice as bad for climate change as previously thought, study reveals

Levels of overlooked greenhouse gas are up to 45 times higher in fields that are only flooded intermittently

www.independent.co.uk

Cant read the article its paywalled. But fair enough I guess, except not only vegans eat rice You would also have to take into account the amount of plants we currently feed all the animals, that would obviously gradually be reduced thus saving emisions, which is probably why the oxford study says going plant based is better for the planet.

 

[Johno please?]

Is it just me or are vegans just the anti vaxers of the dietary World? There is zero evidence to say that veganism is sustainable long term for the body. Any diet that requires supplementation is not species appropriate or sustainable. That said there is zero evidence of any diet being sustainable long term because they can't lock clones up in labs for their entire lives for various obvious reasons.

I happen to know several ex vegans quite well who've between 6 and 14 years on that lifestyle under their belts. They've switched from vegan, due to various health issues like losing their menstrual cycle and organ failure. They're now on Carnivore and doing much better health wise with most if not all seeing their health conditions go into remission. Health generally across the board is a lot better.

I mean, this is babble mate, A study by nutritionists has said its healthy for every stage of life. https://www.pcrm.org/news/health-nu...s-publishes-stance-vegan-and-vegetarian-diets

Regardless this isn't what veganism is about, il copy and paste again...

"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose"

Can you and all these "ex vegans" even go to the toilet on that diet?

 

[Tombstone]

"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose"

I used to work with a guy who was a vegan, he'd spend ages banging on about it to me and everytime I pointed out the hypocrisy of the fact that he was wearing a leather belt and had leather in his shoes , he'd get very angry and defensive.

It was his own fault really, I had no issue with him wanting to be vegan, just as I have no issue with anyone who wants to believe in a God , or that the Earth is flat, or that we have aliens visiting us in UFOs, or that there are ghosts, or climate change or whatever thing they are backing. I firmly think that everyone should be free to believe in whatever morals or principles or thoughts they want, but the moment they start to dictate those onto me (or perhaps AT would be the more applicable word) thats when it gets my back up. I'm happy to let anyone think/believe whatever they want, I dont try and make them change their mind, all I ask is that same attitude is given to me too.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Ive already said, I don't expect everyone in the entire world to go vegan, I see no reason why working class people in hong kong cant be vegan though, they have access to some basic vegetables surely?

Also, Veganism is a new word but the concept isn't even a western idea, other cultures (ancient Indian and west asian) cut out meat probably long before we did.

A quick google suggests there's a growing trend of cutting out meat in hong kong as well which is good to hear.

You don't need to tell me, I've been to and eaten at a monastery, in Hong Kong no less.

 

[Vidar]

I mean, this is babble mate, A study by nutritionists has said its healthy for every stage of life. https://www.pcrm.org/news/health-nu...s-publishes-stance-vegan-and-vegetarian-diets

Regardless this isn't what veganism is about, il copy and paste again...

"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose"

Can you and all these "ex vegans" even go to the toilet on that diet?

What a surprise, vegan finds pro vegan article lol If you think that the current pro vegan anti meat agenda actually has anything to do with improving health you are sorely mistaken. It's all about profits, through these ultra processed foods. Thanks but no thanks.

Oh we go to the toilet far better than Vegans do, for starters because our crap doesn't come out of our mouths! But also as it turns out the body doesn't need fibre. Fat is the natural lubricant of the bowel, I go roughly once a day or every other day. I guarantee there's a lot less volume because what we eat is more bioavailable and we're not dumping mountains of indigestible crud.