Why are you not vegan....
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With the Russia/Ukraine conflict not having quite the attention draw now that it did earlier in its timeline and the Depp/Heard trial now over, I guess GD needs something for everyone to chat about15 pages
Can't see why there's so much
If you want to be Vegan then your choice and I respect that
I don't and that should be respected too
Honestly, veganism is a good thing, you can survive just fine on a vegan diet (although, usually supplemented) and it's way better for the environment.
Personally, I would have great difficulty going vegan, partly due to my job but I have been trying to eat less meat in general. Especially beef.
Personally, I would have great difficulty going vegan, partly due to my job but I have been trying to eat less meat in general. Especially beef.
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Being vegan is a pita and i'd rather not deal with it.
And this is the problem, right here.
If you need to take supplements to stay alive (Hello B12 deficiency leading to anemia and eventually death) Then you're not really eating a balanced diet are you?
We have spent millennia evolving to extract the nutrients we need from both plant AND meat, to think that it can be overcome just because people suddenly develop a "moral conscience" over killing animals for food is rather foolish and misguided.
Consider the average Bullock bred for beef can feed multiple people multiple times, you instead advocate that multiple people, every single day of their lives should take supplements just so that animal could have "never existed" (something being heavily advocated by those arguing the whole "meat is murder" nonsense)?
When did we start to put the priorities of our livestock above our own?
While I am all for supporting efforts to make livestock farming and slaughter as painless and suffering-less (is that even a word?
) as possible, at some point you really have to question why you would put the life of an animal above the lives of multiple humans?If people really want to make an impact and are "horrified" at the notion of livestock / slaughter, perhaps they should turn their attention to the more brutal / gruesome methods of animal treatment and slaughter practiced by other countries / religions (I'm looking at you Halal meat!) before getting all preachy to Brits about eating meat.
Soldato
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I mean so much wrong with your post but anyway.And this is the problem, right here.
If you need to take supplements to stay alive (Hello B12 deficiency leading to anemia and eventually death) Then you're not really eating a balanced diet are you?
We have spent millennia evolving to extract the nutrients we need from both plant AND meat, to think that it can be overcome just because people suddenly develop a "moral conscience" over killing animals for food is rather foolish and misguided.
Consider the average Bullock bred for beef can feed multiple people multiple times, you instead advocate that multiple people, every single day of their lives should take supplements just so that animal could have "never existed" (something being heavily advocated by those arguing the whole "meat is murder" nonsense)?
When did we start to put the priorities of our livestock above our own?
While I am all for supporting efforts to make livestock farming and slaughter as painless and suffering-less (is that even a word?
If people really want to make an impact and are "horrified" at the notion of livestock / slaughter, perhaps they should turn their attention to the more brutal / gruesome methods of animal treatment and slaughter practiced by other countries / religions (I'm looking at you Halal meat!) before getting all preachy to Brits about eating meat.
The fact you dont have to hunt for your food anymore and instead can get if from a shop is no different to taking supplements really. Thats like saying pot noodle, for example shouldnt be allowed as it is manufactured. We know we dont have to kill any animals to eat healthy any more. Its a bit like tobacco we know what it does yet millions still do it.
I mean, you literally can overcome them by taking some supplements. It's not really a big deal now.
I'm not telling anyone to go vegan, but reducing meat intake is generally a good thing for the environment.
Devilman said:
Yeah? You can't "murder" something that never existed. I wouldn't call it murder, personally, as they've been specifically bred for that purpose. But you still can't kill something that never existed.
But ignoring the whole moral thing, veganism is much better for the environment. There is way less impact producing a few supplements and veg than there is producing meat.
Personally, I think reducing intake, improving the quality of life for the animals and making everything as sustainable as possible is the way to go. If someone can go Vegan and remain healthy, which many can, then good for them.
He should have said, "****, you're right, thanks for pointing that out to me" I find that a bit weird that he bothered to go vegan but didnt consider leather, it was the next thing I thought about after stopping eating dairy.
Uhh, the 'The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics' who did the study isn't "pro vegan" at all.
Yea, rice, legumes, beans, bread, potatoes, nuts & seeds and vegetables are sooooo ultra processed.
Cool, Well enjoy your bowel cancer I guess
New research says even moderate red and processed meat eaters at risk of bowel cancer
People who eat red and processed meat within department of health guidelines are still at increased risk of bowel cancer, according to a study published today.www.bowelcanceruk.org.uk
What an absolutely vile and repugnant thing to say to someone. I wish I could say I'm the least bit surprised but you vegans are all the same. It was meant tongue and cheek earlier when I said that vegans are the antivaxers of the dietary World but if looks like a cabbage and smells like one, well...
I'll bet my life that between the two of us, all other things being equal you'll get sicker and unhealthier than I ever will. If eating meat was so bad for you why is every single health marker improving for me on a strict carnivore diet? If you show me your medical records I'll show you mine!
And love the link by the way I've read it before and many others like it. Something doesn't add up though, how did human physiology change in the last hundred years or so? There is zero causation between bowel cancer and red meat? When did we lose the 4 organs in the body that are there for the processing of animal proteins and fats? Last time I checked they're still there. They didn't evolve for us to to eat pea protein and Quorn.
What is interesting though is if we're supposed to be living on plants then why is the only evidence of this in the body a vestigial organ? The appendix used to be our Secum an organ every herbivore on the planet has for the digestion of plant matter. Yet as a species over millions of years we stopped using ours and got rid of it, why? If it was species appropriate food why did we evolve to not have one? Why is our stomach acid more potent than that of lions? Is it so we can digest lentils? I think not. Just because we can eat something, doesn't mean we should.
Also do yourself a favour and talk to a botanist, every single plant is toxic to humans. They don't want to be eaten and defend themselves with toxins. Nobody is arguing there's nothing good in plants like vitamins etc but there's always something bad. These toxins might not be acutely poisonous enough to kill you any time soon but they're there none the less.
But anyway, none of this is going to make you think or change your mind. Some friendly advice though if you're not heavily supplementing already and I suspect you are. Start supplementing. Me, I really don't need to! I get absolutely everything I need from meat. Mmmmm time for some calf's liver fried in butter with a nice hot cup of bone broth.
Caporegime
I don't want to live on a diet base on a guilt trip about my food, that seems really selective about what part i am feeling bad for.
Feeling guilt about killing animals are bad but wouldn't think twice about the plastics that comes from fossil fuel. Why put all your eggs in 1 basket? I don't get it? It doesn't get you any brownie points down the Church on Sundays with God you know. The ultimate goal surely is about saving this planet of ours then we can do it in many many ways rather than having to take B12 supplements for the rest of our life. Which brings me back to veganism and any of these fashionable lifestyle diets are a result of the affluent west…you won't find the guy working 80hrs a week in a warehouse barely put food on his table somewhere in the world to even consider doing this.
Veganism is targeted and advocated by the 0.1%, many many people don't have the choice to go on this diet. In order to save the planet, trying to convince people on this forum is not it or even veganism. You will never convince the majority to go meat free. What is more impactful would be push the idea or other more tasty stuff that isn't meat and the benefit of a balance diet. IF you can convince most people to drop their intake by 10%, that will have a significant more impact than 0.1% to be vegan. Using positive reinforcements rather than guilt.
The vegans have this tunnel vision that total meat free is the way, the only way, trying to moral guilt trip people to give up meat. When the better way and all they need to do is show people just lowering it by a little bit would achieve a BETTER result than they originally set out to do.
Feeling guilt about killing animals are bad but wouldn't think twice about the plastics that comes from fossil fuel. Why put all your eggs in 1 basket? I don't get it? It doesn't get you any brownie points down the Church on Sundays with God you know. The ultimate goal surely is about saving this planet of ours then we can do it in many many ways rather than having to take B12 supplements for the rest of our life. Which brings me back to veganism and any of these fashionable lifestyle diets are a result of the affluent west…you won't find the guy working 80hrs a week in a warehouse barely put food on his table somewhere in the world to even consider doing this.
Veganism is targeted and advocated by the 0.1%, many many people don't have the choice to go on this diet. In order to save the planet, trying to convince people on this forum is not it or even veganism. You will never convince the majority to go meat free. What is more impactful would be push the idea or other more tasty stuff that isn't meat and the benefit of a balance diet. IF you can convince most people to drop their intake by 10%, that will have a significant more impact than 0.1% to be vegan. Using positive reinforcements rather than guilt.
The vegans have this tunnel vision that total meat free is the way, the only way, trying to moral guilt trip people to give up meat. When the better way and all they need to do is show people just lowering it by a little bit would achieve a BETTER result than they originally set out to do.
Soldato
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I dont understand meat eaters. Why cant you just say Meh! All the other stuff just isnt needed. Its the same pattern meat eaters say you cant live wthout meat, evidence gets brought forward to prove you can and meat eaters get angry. Few months later same thread appears same pattern. It is a choice to eat meat its as simple as that.
Caporegime
I don't understand vegans, why don't they mind their own business.
You don't need coffee or tea or beer either, I bet you drink them.
Just wow... The mental gymnastics required to compare vitamin supplements to buying a pot noodle is hilarious, do you practice this often?
What does the "fact" that we don't hunt for food anymore have anything to do with the reality that our body has evolved eating meat and requires meat for adequate vitamin intake?
And to attempt to compare it to smoking is laughable.. we didn't evolve smoking tobacco and requiring it for one of our more important vitamins, this comparison is not even remotely accurate.
Perhaps next time instead of just trying to dismiss everything with the wave of your hand and comments like "i mean so much wrong with your post but anyway" Why not actually engage with the points I made and provide counter claims?
Or is comparing a pot noodle to requiring vitamin supplements to stay alive the best you can manage?
To be fair the "murder" comments were not directed at you personally, I apologize if it came off that way... It was not meant in reply to you just a sarcastic comment in relation to a few of the posts a little earlier in the thread where the term "murder" was brought up more than once.
Even the environmental argument is somewhat flawed tbh.. While I do not dispute that it does indeed have a significant impact, there are literally dozens of things almost every person does every day that have a far greater total impact on the environment and the climate than eating meat. where do we draw the line? Fossil Fuels? Plastics?
As others have said, a significant portion of the land used for livestock farming is not suitable for arable crops which reduces our overall capability to feed the population. The only alternative then is to import it using giant cargo ships, which usually burn the "heaviest" (dirtiest) of the oil variants to haul it's cargo to us - significantly increasing the impact a vegan diet in the UK would have on our "carbon footprint" and overall environmental impact.
Whether it would be greater than the current impact of livestock farming it would be replacing, I honestly do not know but can't help feel that dozens of extra "super-cargo" ships having to shuffle plant-based products around is probably rather significant as it's not just CO2, but NOx and other contaminants coming from those ships.
Soldato
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Veganism is the use of animal products so not just meat. It is bad to kill animals especially the mass production way lets be honest, lets not pretend its not bad for the animal.
Soldato
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Youre the one in here shouting at vegans (or vegetarians).
I mean I wouldnt drink the cat one.
Caporegime
I know what veganism is, I have known the idea before it came to the west over 35 years ago, it's basically what Monks do. But why you stopping at animal welfare?
What about kids working in the far east for your cheap clothing on our high street?
What about the bad working condition in Foxxcon that makes your phone and computer?
What about the the fishing industries destroying the ocean?
Why are you cherry-picking to save the animals? Do you not care about the other bad things around the world? Do you think just because you don't eat meat means everything else you do like putting on the heating doesn't harm the planet?
Do you know you are a hypocrite in doing so? Why are you not living like the Amish?
Seriously, is the moral guilt trip the only angle you have? Have I not already shown you the better way?
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Caporegime
I am not the one started the thread having a go at vegans, it's the vegans trying to have a go at everyone else by creating this thread. Go read Post #001.
We should absolutely abolish fossil fuels as soon as possible, and reduce plastic use as much as is feasible.
Livestock eat arable crops. It's a way less efficient way to get calories and nutrients. It just is.
63% of arable land in the UK is used to feed livestock.
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The problem is farmers export more than we import food wise. We shouldn't export more than we import. Turn the fields in to forests.
Soldato
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Ive read it I dont see the issue. Have you read it recently?
From my perspective I dont see how people are okay with with eating meat when they know about the killing or mistreating of animals. You do not have to eat meat I just dont get it.
Post number 2 summed it up perfectly. No. Oh well the vitamins and stuff in meat is required for sustenance. No a simple I like meat. But people dont think I like eating meat because I like killing animals where as the mind of the veg thinks I wont use that animal product because Im not happy about the mistreatment of animals.
Caporegime
You don't have to poop in the toilet but in your garden either, just dig a hole, why do you have a toliet?
You don't need to drink coffee or tea either, why do you do it?
You don't need a lot of things either, why do you have them?
I don't get it.
Btw, unless you didn't read it, the original title and intent of OP is calling people who eat meat animal abuser. The tone he set out originally is to attack people. Only when it was pointed out to him REPEATEDLY before it got through his head before he understood what he was doing. That the way he was going about it is wrong. Which is what you are doing.
Veganism is not necessarily a wrong thing, but telling other people that they should follow them by guilt, is. Because you have NO IDEA about their life, from health to financial to simple desires.
You have NO IDEA.
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