Not from what I have seen. You never disproved any of the articles from scientists I posted. All you did was misunderstand some areas which was pointed out to you by multiple people, which you appeared to have ignored. You also need to look at the dates as the studies I gave you are new and said scientists had previously underestimated the pollution from the vegetarian industry and its more then double what they thought it was in the past. Which means all the older articles are invalid based around incorrect pollution levels that are under half of what they really are. You also need to look at the source an opinion article from a bias pro Vegan website written by a bias pro Vegan person doesnt overrule a full balanced pear reviewed science paper like what I linked to. The articles you used only looked at the c02 equivalent per person ignoring the methane levels which is 30x more damaging then c02. Reducing carbon emission is worse then useless if your increasing methane levels which an increase in the vegetarian industry would massively increase more so then the current meat industry. Worse because methane is x30 more damaging then carbon. Lastly you looked at calorific equivalent only it wasn't calorific equivalent as you reduced the vegetarian calorie intake by what was it 7%? That doesnt work for a balanced fair view. Recommended daily calorie intake is 2,000 calories a day for women and 2,500 for men. Just because you change from meat to vegetarian that calorie intake doesnt go down. Everything I have seen says a balanced diet is healthiest. To much meat or to much vegetarian or vegan is not as healthy as a proper balanced diet of both.
Why are you not vegan....
- Thread starter Johno please?
- Start date
- Status
It depends how you look at it. If you look at each individual segment I believe the worst single offender is rice production which is very much the staple of a most vegetarian diets. If you add up multiple different types of meat industry together they might overtake rice. But then again that's factoring the entire meat industry against 1 vegetarian segment not the entire vegetarian industry. Then we have to factor in if people swap from meat to vegetarian what increase in methane would there be from extra rice production and other vegetarian foods. The core problem is not meat v vegetarian. Its how the meat is produced and how the vegetarian food is produced. Both of them could be more friendly to the planet in terms of pollution. To me the answer isn't to look to switching from meat v vegetarian v vegan. The answer should be looking at improving emissions for all 3.
Deleted User 298457
Deleted User 298457
It's like the problem is more nuanced than being anti something 
- Joined
- 9 Jun 2005
- Posts
- 4,698
- Location
- Wiltshire
Ive debunked most of these points earlier in the thread, so im not doing them all again.
The apparently non valid studies and articles -
Veggie-based diets could save 8 million lives by 2050 and cut global warming | University of Oxford
A global switch to diets that rely less on meat and more on fruit and vegetables could save up to 8 million lives by 2050, reduce greenhouse gas emissions by two thirds, and lead to healthcare-related savings. It could also avoid climate-related damages of $1.5 trillion (US), Oxford Martin...
Balanced plant-based diets improve our health and the health of the planet | University of Oxford
Well-balanced and predominantly plant-based diets can lead to improved nutrient levels, reduce premature deaths from chronic diseases by more than 20%, and lower greenhouse gas emissions, fertilizer application, and cropland and freshwater use, globally and in most regions, a new study reports.
Position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics: Vegetarian Diets - PubMed
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I grew up near a dairy farm and visited it many times as a child, my neighbour never told me that the calfs were taken away from their mothers repeatably, and forcefully impregnated and then ultimately killed though, funny that eh.
Your bias is really obvious btw, because you're involved in farming. So you care about the insects but not cows, pigs and chickens? The difference is we need to eat plants to survive, we don't need to eat meat, veganism is not meant to eliminate harm.
The damage done to the environment from feeding, raising and killing billions of animals a year is far worse than from growing plants.
None of your arguments are original, even the 'JuSt KilL YoUrSeLf' line has been done to death, I wont kill myself for the same reasons you wont.
Does she not eat much whole foods then?
"hell" haha, Theres an adjustment period like any lifestyle change, but shopping being vegan is no harder, its probably harder because youre on two different diets maybe I dunno.
Seriously I don't have the time to keep having the same arguments only for you to keep ignoring the studies I post. Halal slaughter is bad yes, but so is the very short life and death of your average chicken and pig.
Last edited:
Associate
- Joined
- 22 Dec 2020
- Posts
- 761
I had a nice steak this evening.
Ive debunked most of these points earlier in the thread, so im not doing them all again.
The apparently non valid studies and articles -
Veggie-based diets could save 8 million lives by 2050 and cut global warming | University of Oxford
A global switch to diets that rely less on meat and more on fruit and vegetables could save up to 8 million lives by 2050, reduce greenhouse gas emissions by two thirds, and lead to healthcare-related savings. It could also avoid climate-related damages of $1.5 trillion (US), Oxford Martin...www.ox.ac.uk
Balanced plant-based diets improve our health and the health of the planet | University of Oxford
Well-balanced and predominantly plant-based diets can lead to improved nutrient levels, reduce premature deaths from chronic diseases by more than 20%, and lower greenhouse gas emissions, fertilizer application, and cropland and freshwater use, globally and in most regions, a new study reports.Position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics: Vegetarian Diets - PubMed
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of...
I grew up near a dairy farm and visited it many times as a child, my neighbour never told me that the calfs were taken away from their mothers repeatably, and forcefully impregnated and then ultimately killed though, funny that eh.
Your bias is really obvious btw, because you're involved in farming. So you care about the insects but not cows, pigs and chickens? The difference is we need to eat plants to survive, we don't need to eat meat, veganism is not meant to eliminate harm. The damage done to the environment from animal agriculture is far worse than one that is based on plants.
None of your arguments are original, even the 'JuSt KilL YoUrSeLf' line has been done to death, I wont kill myself for the same reasons you wont.
Does she not eat much whole foods then?
"hell" haha, Theres an adjustment period like any lifestyle change, but shopping being vegan is no harder, its probably harder because youre on two different diets maybe I dunno.
Seriously I don't have the time to keep having the same arguments only for you to keep ignoring the studies I post. Halal slaughter is bad yes, but so is the very short life and death of your average chicken and pig.
No point any one responding to your ridiculous posts and this will be the last time I do you are clueless.
You have debunked nothing.
Still waiting on the controlled studies done on humans in regards to diets you have yet to provide a single one (you wont ever because none have conducted)
Out of interest what level education do you have?
Those ox links are not studies if you bothered to read the studies those news articles are based of they show no such thing as claimed.
british-dietetic-association HAHA are you being serious these people have no interest in real science and as i said in another post people who have a certification from these people do not even know what The Randle Cycle is also these same people claim Cholesterol is bad yet again no real science backs up this claim.
Showing again you know nothing about farming calfs and mothers do not care about each other if again you had any experience or even spoke to people that know the industry they will show you this even explain but it doesn't matter in your mind you live in fantasy land no the real reality.
In nature a lot of animals are hurt or killed when mating this doesnt happen in farming another thing you clearly knew nothing about wow the lack of education is really showing.
I care about least harm which is to feed my family with 3 animals per year that is all it takes.
How do we need to consume plants to survive our species went millions of years without them look up some history and again you may want to learn something about the food you are eating which climate does these fruit/veg require also when do they grow naturally its not all year so people should not eat anything for 6-7 months.
Here is how your claimed studies work I make up a questionnaire and go ask a bunch of people lets say 5000 those same people I will ask them the same questions say 10 years later with a few extra and then publish a paper claiming based of those questionnaires this is the outcome yes that is real science isn't it.
Soldato
- Joined
- 11 Jan 2007
- Posts
- 8,683
- Location
- *̡̡ı ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡
I enjoy a nice meal consisting of veg. I have posted a delicious recipe for Pimped up beans on toast. I also make a rather nice Herby greens with Mushrooms which I may post one day, but I do like having meat too, such as steak or chicken. I like to buy my meat from Sainsburys pre-packaged. I'd prefer not to know about the stages it takes to convert my dinner from an animal though. I could not work in a butcher's shop and hate the smell from there. The window displays are like a horror show mostly.
- Joined
- 9 Jun 2005
- Posts
- 4,698
- Location
- Wiltshire
Utterly shameless lying, but not surprising this is exactly what the meat and dairy industry have been doing for decades to try and hide the truth from people.
Anyone who has any interest in the truth can literally google this for themselves to the see the countless video evidence of "cows not caring about each other"
Why is everyone getting their knickers in a twist? Just eat what you want but try to eat healthy. It’s my belief that we should eat both meat and veg to get the right vitamins and minerals. The odd animal will die, but that’s life. I don’t think they wanted us to keep them as pets anyway
Because vegans are most preachy, condescending, banal, ignorant folks out there and they can't let people eat what they want as it's an assault on their feelings.
- Joined
- 9 Jun 2005
- Posts
- 4,698
- Location
- Wiltshire
Why is everyone getting their knickers in a twist? Just eat what you want but try to eat healthy. It’s my belief that we should eat both meat and veg to get the right vitamins and minerals. The odd animal will die, but that’s life. I don’t think they wanted us to keep them as pets anyway
'The odd animal', haha just billions a year that live horrible short lives.
Its like you think vegans stop eating animals just for fun or something.
The animals I eat are well looked after. I always ask before I eat them.
- Joined
- 9 Jun 2005
- Posts
- 4,698
- Location
- Wiltshire
Seriously, is lying just something you do naturally or is it learned? You cant be this ignorant?
Even the RSPCA who don't give much of a crap about "livestock" debunk this.
https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/farm/pigs/farming - "Only 3% of pigs will spend their entire lives outdoors"
https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/farm/pigs/keyissues - then after all this, they're gassed with carbon dioxide for so called 'stunning'.
Laughable accusing others of telling lies yet you can not backup any of your claims.
Again showing how uneducated you are you do not even understand how and who runs the food industry.
Counter argument is google so that has all the answers science and people who have skill sets doing the living for decades know nothing but google does the same with history if google has an alt version that is only correct.
I knew vegans are mentally challenged due to the poor nutrition but seriously please eat some eggs or a bit of meat you need help.
Already given you facts use your tool google if you must remember this tells the truth it has an answer of 1 cow can feed a whole family for a year.
So who is it killing billions you plant eaters remember all those insects and other animals which are wiped out to protect crops.
Pigs living inside what is your point?
Would you like them to be allowed to roam the world and be wiped out.
Humans are spending a lot of time indoors as well.
RSPCA links whats the point? You are a typical vegan you have no case so you try to flash around this place shows this or that place as if they have any standing or meaning they don't provide "FACTS" and "SCIENCE" none of those links provide a single case it's all words the same with all the claimed studies you people keep bringing up.
Do you have any pets?
Associate
- Joined
- 29 Oct 2019
- Posts
- 1,003
I'm not vegan mainly because it would be too much effort to limit my food choices, though I don't usually consume that much meat and switched to oat milk as it's healthier. I don't believe that animal products are required for a healthy diet like some people here, I'm not that delusional.
Soldato
- Joined
- 30 Nov 2011
- Posts
- 11,492
What's funny is all the "vegans" in this thread telling us how much better it is for the environment then booking flights to America and producing more CO2 for one holiday than nearly 3 years worth of the chicken I eat. And that's before they rent a gas guzzler and go driving all over too.
Absolute hypocrisy.
I bet the rest of their lives follows a similar pattern, how many miles a year do they drive - I work from home and have done less than 1000 in the last year, selling my car entirely next week. And so on. Better for the environment, what nonsense.
Absolute hypocrisy.
I bet the rest of their lives follows a similar pattern, how many miles a year do they drive - I work from home and have done less than 1000 in the last year, selling my car entirely next week. And so on. Better for the environment, what nonsense.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 13 Apr 2013
- Posts
- 13,043
- Location
- La France
“*Assumes nuclear power plants replaced fossil fuels”This post isn't entirely aimed at yourself..
Of course. I can imagine if it came to it the vast majority would to.
I actually don't eat bacon. Not a fan!
I'm not sure why you think I don't like insects.
I love insects, I know for well how important pollinators are.
Half of my garden is for nature.
Life becomes more important in the grand scheme as you go down the 'intelligence' scale.
I even keep insects at home. (exotics)
Just because I'm not a vegan doesn't mean I can't see that veganism is better for
A) suffering of animals
B) the environment
It is a better lifestyle. I'm not really sure how people can deny it.
I grew up around farming, pig farming, its brutal. And that's a small scale farm in the UK. What most would think is a pretty high standard. The conditions aren't great. A human would go crazy in there. And pigs are intelligent.
But the environmental point is hard to deny. Animals use a vast quantity of. Soya, wheat, other cereals. And dairy in particular uses water in a grand scale. Dwarfing crop production.
Again, this eating meat avoids deforestation is not a valid argument.
I had a quick search, and this link from nature is just a sample of information on it.
Eat less meat: UN climate-change report calls for change to human diet
The report on global land use and agriculture comes amid accelerating deforestation in the Amazon.www.nature.com
I haven't checked sources but it is a nature article. Not a vegan promoting site.
Palm oil isn't great, but using specific cases like this isn't an argument that vegan is worse than meat. Vegan doesn't mean you consume palm oil.
I'm not going to address diet as its something I don't know much about.
Since that hasn’t happened, are we safe to assume the rest of those projections are bobbins as well?
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 29 Mar 2003
- Posts
- 57,370
- Location
- Stoke on Trent
I am currently researching sources of local, free range & grass fed (during summer obviously) meat which is slaughtered locally. I don't have ethical qualms about having animals killed for my food, but I would much prefer they have as nice a life and as low stress a slaughter as possible.
It will cause a reduction in meat consumption as the cost is a lot higher, and I'm not going to go over the top with it (will still eat steak if I want to at a restaurant etc). I'm already dairy free mostly due to it making me poo excessively and having worked on big dairy farms I'm happy not contributing to the way those animals are kept.
I think that's a pretty balanced way of doing things, I'm sure the zealots will be out for me in this thread regardless but I don't feel bad about eating meat, I've been fairly up close to the food chain so I'm not coming from a place of total ignorance and my conscience is clear (or will be once I sort a few more sources out!)
Edit, lol, man children pretending they're not having kids due to the environment
It will cause a reduction in meat consumption as the cost is a lot higher, and I'm not going to go over the top with it (will still eat steak if I want to at a restaurant etc). I'm already dairy free mostly due to it making me poo excessively and having worked on big dairy farms I'm happy not contributing to the way those animals are kept.
I think that's a pretty balanced way of doing things, I'm sure the zealots will be out for me in this thread regardless but I don't feel bad about eating meat, I've been fairly up close to the food chain so I'm not coming from a place of total ignorance and my conscience is clear (or will be once I sort a few more sources out!)
Edit, lol, man children pretending they're not having kids due to the environment
- Status