Why are you not vegan....

[Philtor]

Should thank the meat-eaters for the resulting selective breeding and taming of wild cows... some Germans tried to re-breed the wild ancestors of the modern cow and they're rather aggressive:

British farmer forced to destroy herd of 'aggressive' Nazi-bred super

They became so aggressive a UK farmer was forced to turn half of them into sausages

www.independent.co.uk

​

Jesus I have seen it all now were they coming at him with batons and stuff? lol ‘Enough of this meat eating carrying on!’

 

[Johno please?]

So many of the arguments in favor of change revolve around the use of emotive imagery and wording, picking only the worst-of-the-worst (often not even from this country) in an attempt to back-up their message. Use of terms such as "murder" to attempt to illicit an emotional response from a person, rather than a well thought out, considered response from the more reasoned areas of the brain, less driven by emotion and reaction to "shocking" images etc.. This is the problem. Could you imagine if every EV owner went around berating and belittling ICE drivers the way many vegans do towards meat-eaters?

Instead look at the "message" being used to encourage people to switch. Free (or super cheap) charging... Road tax discounts etc... Incentives and positive messages, not belittlement and accusations of murder.

The documentary I posted and things ive spoken about that happen to animals, all happen in UK farms. It's a bit of a myth that terrible conditions for farmed animals is an overseas problem.

Infact, I used to say exactly the same things until I found out what conditions were like.

I haven't accused anyone of murder, but if you buy meat and dairy you do pay for animal abuse unfortunately..... If only we could garner the same reaction from people to cows/pigs and chickens like when Kurt Zouma kicked his cat.

 

[Philtor]

Infact, I used to say exactly the same things until I found out what conditions were like.

I haven't accused anyone of murder, but if you buy meat and dairy you do pay for animal abuse unfortunately..... If only we could garner the same reaction from people to cows/pigs and chickens like when Kurt Zouma kicked his cat.

If we didn’t eat them, the world would be full of animals running amok and sh****** all over the place. What do we do then? Use it for fertiliser for your veg patch?

 

[Johno please?]

Is it your absolute opinion that man made polymers are better for the world than organic materials made from animals?

Because I'd argue that if we're talking bigger picture, animals that are treated well and killed humanely are the better choice than polluting the world with chemical extraction and the products it enables?

How do you kill something "humanely", like minimal suffering I guess you would say?

To me that would be putting an animal to sleep like when you get a pet put down, that's humane. What we do to farmed animals is the opposite of that, would you want your pet put down at a slaughterhouse?

If we didn’t eat them, the world would be full of animals running amok and sh****** all over the place. What do we do then? Use it for fertiliser for your veg patch?

We only breed them for the sole purpose of food/clothing so no they wouldnt be running amok xD. I guess we would have to think of some kind of rewilding, I dunno, I don't have all the answers.

 

[Hagar]

If humans were herbivores we would have teeth for the purpose, no incisors rather than eight, no canines rather than four and more molars. We would have a working appendix and be able to break down cellulose much more effectively in the gut.

Plainly we could eat grass and leaves, bark from the trees, acorns and require nothing else.

 

[Paracelsus]

If humans were herbivores we would have teeth for the purpose, no incisors rather than eight, no canines rather than four and more molars.

We're not herbivores, but that doesn't mean we have to eat meat. We do all kinds of things in the modern world we didn't evolve for, because we're clever. Like wearing shoes and using soap.

I don't mind people eating meat, but the omnivore thing is just a bad argument. Most people eat meat because it tastes good and they don't care about an animal being raised/killed for it as long as they don't have to do it.
That's OK, it's basic psychology, just be honest about it!

I think in a few hundred years, if we haven't annihilated ourselves, we'll look back on ourselves eating farmed animals the same we look back at slavery now.
But I also think realistic artificial meat is absolutely a pre-requisite for that. I respect vegans a lot, but can't see it becoming mainstream until then.

 

[builder22]

 

[Freefaller]

CS may have a point about us being more plant based in our ancestors hence the appendix, but since we started to include better and more nutritiously dense food and food that our bodies found easier to deal with the need for digesting grass and plants have become less relevant. So we've sort of evolved to not rely on plants alone and why the appendix has become irrelevant.

 

[Philtor]

“Most people eat meat because it tastes good and they don't care about an animal being raised/killed for it as long as they don't have to do it.”

That’s not true. You are right we couldn’t kill an animal (well me anyway), however I expect that they are humanely slaughtered when I eat them. Nobody who eats meat wants said animal to suffer. Not in the slightest.

 

[dowie]

I don't mind people eating meat, but the omnivore thing is just a bad argument. Most people eat meat because it tastes good and they don't care about an animal being raised/killed for it as long as they don't have to do it.
That's OK, it's basic psychology, just be honest about it!

If that was all people cared about they could stick with McDonalds, Doritos and fizzy drinks... those things have all been over-engineered to taste very good to the point where people consume way too much.

People care about having a balanced diet too, nothing wrong with lean meat, fish, eggs and milk when you're eating healthily or indeed some beef occasionally.

It's particularly important for kids to get the nutrients they need: https://www.nature.com/articles/news050221-5

Meat is a vital part of a child's diet, according to a two-year study of Kenyan schoolkids. Without it, children grow up smaller, less strong and less intelligent, the results suggest.
So clear are the benefits, in fact, that denying children meat or dairy products in the first few years of life is unethical, argues Lindsay Allen of the University of California, Davis, who carried out the research.

 

[andybird123]

To me that would be putting an animal to sleep like when you get a pet put down, that's humane.

They do that with barbiturates which then flood the muscles of the animal, so anyone eating the meat would get a big dose of barbiturates themselves. Not very practical as far as a solution goes.

 

[davejh666]

We only breed them for the sole purpose of food/clothing so no they wouldnt be running amok xD. I guess we would have to think of some kind of rewilding, I dunno, I don't have all the answers.

They would be culled. Many species, such as cows, if the world went Vegan tomorrow would cease to exist. They serve no purpose to the human race, who would keep them and why? Can't let them free roam as they are far too big - so there is one inevitable outcome.

I can't find the program at the moment, but I watched something a long time ago that had a person on it promoting Veganism and a farmer and even the vegan agreed in the end that some species of animals would go extinct.

 

[jpaul]

cows are only a few degrees of separation form their primitive selves (like humans?) when you read of the people trampled every year for worrying them ?

Cost of transitioning to either vegan or higher welfare meat (eg. rspca ?) is still a dissuasive factor for many, I'd contend the aforementioned japanese longevity is predominately a luxury of wealth in their society - they will be lucky to sustain it.
(Let alone premium charged by some vegan companies Oatley target 40% gross profit margin, Arla 5%, buy regular milk and a green/co2 credit)

 

[dowie]

If humans were herbivores we would have teeth for the purpose, no incisors rather than eight, no canines rather than four and more molars. We would have a working appendix and be able to break down cellulose much more effectively in the gut.

Plainly we could eat grass and leaves, bark from the trees, acorns and require nothing else.

More on veganism/vegetarianism and kids... just not worth it, let them choose to be veggies as adults if they really want otherwise give them (and pregnant women/new mothers) a balanced diet including meat, milk, eggs etc.. as the poster above pointed out we evolved to be omnivores not herbivores! Eating meat is a natural part of our diet and our diets are at risk of being deficient without it:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534260814844153858

(That isn't to say that all meat-eaters are healthy either, nothing natural about fat chavs consuming junk food all the time and they're generally included in the broad set of all people who eat meat.)

cows are only a few degrees of separation form their primitive selves (like humans?) when you read of the people trampled every year for worrying them ?

They're incredibly docile compared to the wild beasts they were descended from, see accounts from Romans re: German tribes and the Aurochs they kept/hunted (or indeed the article I linked to above re: mutant Nazi cows!

Aurochs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Hanuki]

I enjoy eating meat, same as i enjoy eating vegetables - Balance, i somewhat enjoy a glass of milk but not massive fan. Do i feel like the meat industry is destroying our ecosystem sure, im sure if you look at our production of vegan product you might find it might be impacting our ecosystem as well both a negative and positive way... anyway do what you love with moderation, balance is key - maybe as a species cut down on the population, become little self sufficient - reduce waste

 

[Scougar]

I enjoy eating meat, same as i enjoy eating vegetables - Balance, i somewhat enjoy a glass of milk but not massive fan. Do i feel like the meat industry is destroying our ecosystem sure, im sure if you look at our production of vegan product you might find it might be impacting our ecosystem as well both a negative and positive way... anyway do what you love with moderation, balance is key - maybe as a species cut down on the population, become little self sufficient - reduce waste

Yup. Balance.

Edit: Being low in B12 is no joke. My wife had serious health issues from being critically low. She had to have injections for 3 months to get her up again. Thankfully she seems yo have rebounded.

 

[Scougar]

Cover crops not enough to improve soil after decades of continuous corn

Although about 20% of Illinois cropping systems are planted to continuous corn, it's nearly impossible to find fields planted this way for decades at a time. Yet long-term experiments like one at the University of Illinois, including over 40 years of continuous corn under different nitrogen...

phys.org

Interesting study that has somewhat of an impact on food supply.

 

[moon man]

What has happened to me a few times is that i have spread out my vegan haul on the supermarket conveyer and the person next to me has quickly hid animal products ,i think this says something .
I don't think this thread will make people turn vegan on here ,it takes empathy in my case but i know many who have done veganuary and felt so much better they have kept it going so health will be the big factor followed by the environment
As said if you do it wrong you will feel rubbish ,i use a veg extract marmite type (but i used this before i was vegan) and an omega seed mix to sprinkle on porridge ect
what i did at first was drop non vegan items but not research their equivalents but have built up recopies over the years ,the currys lack nothing but then again a lot of Indian food is veggie anyway

 

[cheesefest]

...and don't get me started on halal and kosher. We had in this country acceptable methods of slaughter, as humane as possible. We are not in the middle east, we do not get daytime temperatures in the high thirties. We don't get flyblown pork. Letting animals bleed out as they die. We have good refrigeration for killed meats and a high standard of practice. An unknown but therefore relatively small number of people are poisoned by their food.

So why do we accept archaic beliefs into the food chain. As a reasonably educated and prosperous country we should have outlawed all this guff and make sure that the quickest and most painfree methods are used. Not those outlined in the Torah or the Koran or some similar text from the middle ages of this country.

An atheistic omnivore.

Especially when two eatery chains have made their restaurants (two each) in the town near me. Yet when there are independent halal eateries do very similar menus. If I fancy eating at one of these, I need to drive further for them
to serve non halal meat.

Why do these restaurants chains want to cater for 17% of the city’s population?

 

[cheesefest]

I hate veggies and vegans say it’s disgusting that I am eating a ham n cheese sandwich.

It’s my choice and not others - people and media (veganary)